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Requests for 432 and 417

  • 1.  Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-25-2022 16:15
    Has anyone else noticed an increase in requests for tuning to A-432 or A-417 vs 440 lately? Some customers are following the thought process put forth by those claiming health related benefits, including Michael Terrell in his book "The Sound of Healing". I have had a choir and numerous individuals wanting their pianos at these lower pitches.

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    Greg Junker
    Greg Junker's Piano Shoppe, LLC
    Belleville IL
    618-971-9595
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  • 2.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-25-2022 16:21
    Hello Greg,
    I had one customer who wanted her piano tuned to A4 at 432Hz because of supposed health benefits.
    I charged them for a pitch correction and a tuning and then one year later went back to a tuning at 440Hz. They had not noticed any health improvements (physical nor mental) but had  noticed how off, as in flat, everything sounded.
    Peter

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    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-25-2022 16:31
    Funny, I had a client ask me about lower pitches just this morning! Not for his piano, just in general. Must be a fad going around or something. I told him that, unless the piano isn't able to handle 440, like some of the old squares, I generally don't offer that option. He agreed, and said that his guitars sounded terrible when they're that flat also.

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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 13:10
    I have tuned for clients to 432. Shortly afterward, they wanted the piano returned to 440. I don’t see any reason to dismiss the idea of sound healing. It’s well established, and there are college curriculums training people for music therapy. And certainly A440 is not the only frequency utilized in music therapy. If scales and string tensions were designed for A432, one wouldn’t experience the lackluster tone that occurs tuning to a pitch that much lower than designed. Also, the inharmonicity must be affected by lower tensions.

    Joe Wiencek
    NYC


    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-26-2022 10:49
    A google search of "440 Hz health risk" provides an alarming amount of discussion on this topic. Who knew?

    I noticed that some have stated that they will refuse such a request as to use 432 Hz instead of the 440 Hz reference. Instead I would like to suggest that a tuner becomes well informed on this topic and are able to have a meaning full conversation with someone that want to consider the health benefits of 432 Hz.

    Someone that is well informed on the subject will always be more credible than someone that refuses to even discuss it.

    My thoughts,
    You milage may vary
    David Armbrust
    Sarasota Florida

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    David Armbrust
    Sarasota FL
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 10:56
    If I was requested to do it I would discuss the physical ramifications (to the piano) and the expense of doing so, and then the additional expense of putting things back if they decide it was a fruitless endeavor.  This tactic has been successful for me with preventing concert artists from demanding an alternative pitch for a single concert (double up AND double down...they pay it all...nearly $1k). 

    If they still want to do it...fine by me.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-26-2022 11:22
    Didn't Chickering argue for A432 to be concert pitch? I had a Dutch composer playing in synch with 400 drones ask for A432. 
    It's not that A432 sounds worse, it's the instruments are designed to be at A440. Chickering designed some of his instrument to be at 432 and they sound fine. 

    A432 is said to be an extrapolation of a base earth frequency of 7.83 Hz. This guy I think is the one who came up with the frequency. 
    From wikipedia, The Schumann resonances (SR) are a set of spectrum peaks in the extremely low frequency (ELF) portion of the Earth's electromagnetic field spectrum. Schumann resonances are global electromagnetic resonances, generated and excited by lightning discharges in the cavity formed by the Earth's surface and the ionosphere.
    For me, the scientific extrapolation without measurement is bogus. The nature of the universe isn't that consistent every second.

    As piano technicians that deal with many different base frequencies in buildings, considering,,Hummmmm could be more important. 60 cycles a second is the frequency of the electric system in a house. I extrapolated that frequency and it seems to be a B. When I'm in a restaurant that has a lot electric humm that I tune along with, the B is the closest. The cooling fan frequencies are all over the map. Sometimes you can't turn off all the equipment and if 440 is not important,, why not adjust? 
    Maybe some of the techs with tune lab can give us some building frequencies to see if there is any consistency.

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    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-26-2022 11:41
    Chickering turn of the century =435. Before that, "French pitch" whatever that was.  Frequencies have been migrating for centuries, mostly based on the physical requirements  and limitations of the materials being used in. not only pianos, but organs fiddles, etc.

    As such, those frequency changes are responding to physical limitations. Repeating the Wiki BS stated above, with the wonderfully catchy marketing term, which I will not repeat, does nothing but amplify the absolutely fact free discussion.   










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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-26-2022 11:56
    I once had to take an instrument down to 432 for a concert and had just 1 1/2 hours to do so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7AoF3zvcaI was the result.

    The violinist complained that 440 and the series of harmonics associated set off her tinnitus. Potentially one can see that shifting to another pitch and another set of frequencies could possibly have legitimate claim to avoiding ears damaged by persistent exposure to the 440 based scale.

    Best wishes

    David P
    --
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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594



    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-26-2022 12:05
    A little bit of trivia:

    In 1859 the French government passed a law setting A4 to 435Hz. 435 Hz was also the frequency set in the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. 440 Hz came about in 1955 when the International Standards Organization pegged it at 440 Hz with ISO 16.

    David Armbrust
    Sarasota Florida


    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 15:50
    From William Braid White "Piano Tuning and Allied Arts" fifth edition page 62,

    " Standard Pitch. It will be noted that the frequency for A1= 27.50 c.p.s. corresponds with the frequency 440 c.p.s. for A 49. This frequency, measured by a standard tuning fork, operating at a temperature of 68 Fahr., has been since 1925, the standard of pitch for the American music industries. In 1936 it was adopted by the American Standards Association and in 1939 by an international commission representing the principal European countries. It is therefore the pitch to which all tuners must conform .........No other pitch has today any standing."

    This leaves aside the plot by the Rockefellers to use A=440hz to drive the world mad and thus precipitate WWII. As well as the preference of certain apparently inter-dimensional beings from the Pleiades for A=444hz due to that producing C = 528 which is the mystical healing frequency.

    It's on the internet and,as we know, everything on the internet is true.

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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 16:15
    Apropos of nothing. Back in 1995 or '96 Steinway was requested by the Verdi Society to deliver a piano at A 432 to Carnegie Hall. It was the only time in seven years that I was allowed to use my Accu-tuner for a concert department tuning. Nobody had a 432hz fork and the Accu-tuner was the only instrument we had that could give us that much of a pitch offset.

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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 19:12
    Karl Roeder went:
    Back in 1995 or '96 Steinway was requested by the Verdi Society to deliver a piano at A 432 to Carnegie Hall. It was the only time in seven years that I was allowed to use my Accu-tuner for a concert department tuning.

    Thanks for coming clean with us, Karl. There was a rumor. We'll call off the private investigator.





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    William Ballard RPT
    WBPS
    Saxtons River VT
    802-869-9107

    "Our lives contain a thousand springs
    and dies if one be gone
    Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
    should keep in tune so long."
    ...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
    +++++++++++++++++++++
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2022 01:21

    Yes, standard pitch has migrated for centuries, but it seems to have migrated steadily upwards, probably for no good reason.  I wonder sometimes about how this works with the human voice.  Humans have gotten taller over the centuries, and perhaps because of this our voices have lowered slightly.  (This is not based on any research on my part, just an assumption.)  So while the human voice has possibly gotten lower, the pitches of instruments have gotten higher.

     

    The reason I wonder about this is that I sing tenor in the arts group I belong to, and some of the music has high notes I can't sing well, or at all without squeaking. 




    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 14:28
    What I usually do is explain that not only does the 432 come from multiplying a lower frequency that is NOT 432, but that there is only ONE key on their piano that will be set to 432. The A's above and below it won't match the multiples of the original lower frequency because of inharmonicity and the 87 keys that are left won't be a multiple of that either. So, not only will they be destabilizing their entire piano for one note, that one note still isn't the original frequency this whole theory is based upon. Add to that the piano won't be able to be played with other instruments unless they detune, and it won't be able to be played with wind instruments at all, and people lose interest quickly. I have yet to have a customer want A432 after this explanation.

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    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2022 16:26
    Additionally, this math is based on ET. If one was using a UT it would really mess things up. LOL!

    However, I will admit that the one piano I tuned to A-444 actually did sound better...until I tried playing "along with Mitch".

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2022 01:02
    I have told some folks who enquired that having spent over 45 years with my head stuck in a piano doink doink doinking for 10's of 1000's of hours and assuredly being exposed to myriad frequencies, I have experienced no particular effects. By the way they look at me I'm not sure if they buy the no particular effects part but they still want me to tune their piano.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
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    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Posted 03-27-2022 09:46
    Ah Steve,  but you see this is the whole point on the conspiracy theory con front. As my family member was told, while they were extracting sums of money from her, the reason pianos tuners are all hunched over is that they were listening to the wrong frequency, and the out of tune notes they try to make unison, changed the molecular structure their bodies.  

    I did mention to her, that actually tuning is ergonomic hell...but the con sounds so much better.

    The more this garbage is discussed, the more is acquires false credibility. To my family member's great credit, she saw the gaslighting, and extracted herself from it, but it was not an easy thing for her to do.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2022 08:05

    Maggie,

    Bingo!!!  My thoughts exactly.

    Big picture,  the reality is that one note technically is the lowering factor to A432. How about the neighboring high whole note, and the next, and next?

    Now for strings, there is a lower tension issue, which does soften the tonal factor. And then raising to A443, the tension in strings is much higher, and there is a more edginess to the tone.  So, there is some truth behind the effects of the overall pitch. And then for wind players, which I'm one of those unlucky souls who is a working symphonic clarinetist, who has to deal with those offsets. Changing pitch that much throws the entire instrument into a tizzy.  So there's that...

    I view this whole pitch discussion like spices with food. Suddenly, chipotle seasoning is introduced to add boost the flavor in one direction. Before you know it, the fad takes off and chipotle seasoning is being added to everything.  And then that becomes the standard.  Pallets in taste will always change. Clothing styles will change. And I dare say, the whole pitch philosophy (of which is better) will continually have segments that declare one is preferred over another.

     

    Tom Servinsky 

    Registered Piano Technician

    Concert Artist Piano Technician

    Director/Conductor- Academy Orchestra

    Managing Conductor-Treasure Coast Youth Symphony

    Clarinetist-Atlantic Classical Orchestra

    tompiano@tomservinsky.com

    Website: tomservinsky.com

    772 221 1011 office

    772 260 7110 cell

     




    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-28-2022 09:46
    Thomas & Jim - Hahahaha! 

    For everyone's enjoyment, but ya gotta hang tight until 1:45...lol
    I'm particularly a fan at 4:20. ;-) 

    https://youtu.be/ghUs-84NAAU

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    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: Requests for 432 and 417

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-28-2022 13:12
    One more, because...lol (especially at 3:00)

    https://youtu.be/ghUs-84NAAU

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    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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    Original Message