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Cents Deviation Calculation

  • 1.  Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 16:42


    -------------------------------------------
    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
    -------------------------------------------

    Today I had a customer ask me to tune his piano to "256 cps", but he didn't know which note he was referring to. I presumed he meant C4 because that is the closest note (when tuned to standard pitch) to his 256cps request. Because I tune aurally and only have a strobe tuner (with only a cents vernier scale), I don't have any way to determine how many cents C4 -256 is deviated from standard A-440. I don't do historical tunings. Does anybody know if this is a "standard" historical pitch?

    Roger Gable



  • 2.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 17:09
    Good one, Roger!

    I was just talking to a great recently graduated piano DMA student a few minutes ago here for accompanying at voice juries..  He sez he can not hear beats at all!  All he knows is it sounds good, or it doesn't.  Ha!  I tried to explain just playing the F/A interval to hear 7bps.  Can't do it!  funny.  On the other hand, some students are pretty good at hearing a "note" saying it's an A or G or whatever. And they're pretty close, mostly.

    I don't wish to start the "perfect pitch" people for the umptinth time yet again.  Please all, don't start that again.We all have our thoughts on that.

    I think your man just has a c-fork, or something stuck in his brain on where he wants the pitch.  Use a C fork and try it.  He'll probably like it, or better yet, just tune the stinking piano as usual, and he'll probably think it great.

    Best,
    Paul




    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    Glenn Korff School of Music
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-16-2013 17:23
    On 12/16/2013 4:08 PM, Paul Williams via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:

    >
    > I think your man just has a c-fork, or something stuck in his brain
    > on where he wants the pitch.

    I think he's heard someone say SOMETHING, though he doesn't remember
    exactly what, and is trying to sound like he knows something. Sounds
    sort of familiar somehow.


    > Use a C fork and try it. He'll
    > probably like it, or better yet, just tune the stinking piano as
    > usual, and he'll probably think it great.

    I'd corner him for details, like where he got this number, and most
    likely, as you suggest, tune it as usual.
    Ron N


    Original Message


  • 4.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 17:38
    Oh, that would be just cruel!  have some Christmas heart..just a little?  Ha ha ha! , that was really funny!.  I say 258 or 9 just to mess him up!  Like he could tell.  Then tune to Vialloti 1816..  That's scary!! (sorry, I do this once in awhile.  Not liking it)

    Sorry Roger, I just couldn't stop!

    I was trying to nice about where the tuning fork was stuck! ;>)

    Roger, just tune the thing! he won't know the difference.  I had a customer out your way once who wanted it tuned just so, for honky tonk! A little sharp in the treble and flat in the bass.  It was a Wurlitzer player with one of those weird player gizmos with a casset insert next to the keyboard.  Oh yeah!  I'm all over that!

    :>) sounded like a concert grand to him!


    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    Glenn Korff School of Music
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 5.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-16-2013 17:58
    All,

    I wouldn't assume anything about this individual based on what has been said thus far.

    I would attempt to find out what this person was trying to communicate beyond all the so called understanding of things to date.

    Could be very instrumental in learning something brand new.

    Just another viewpoint from the peanut gallery of Keith McGavern, and with respect to everyone else's own way of doing things.

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    tune-repair@allegiance.tv

    Original Message


  • 6.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 18:01
    Understood,, Keith.  C-XXX is probably something he's heard, not something he's "HEARD".  That is all.

    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    Glenn Korff School of Music
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 7.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 19:11
    I've been running into this weird pitch stuff recently.  I've been looking into it and it's pretty wacky stuff.  You can read more about the weirdness at this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiller_Institute#Verdi_tuning

    It has something to do with "the Philosopher's C", or "scientific pitch" or Verdi Tuning, whatever that is.  It has its roots in historical tuning, but more recently it's been promoted by the Schiller Institute, which is a front for Lyndon LaRouche, remember him?  Your client probably doesn't have any connection with all this, but it's an idea that's out there in the world and it's only a matter of time before we run into it.

    Of course it has other antecedents as well, and it's discussed in the current PT Journal (remember, there are articles in there, not just exciting advertisements...).  Kenneth Forrest's latest installment of But Is It In Tune? discusses "the Philosopher's C" and he does a good job of pointing out how arbitrary the whole thing is.

    Cheers!
    -------------------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-16-2013 20:10
    Great article, Zeno, but in my opinion these days, it has to do with some following things other than what you have posted:

    1) tuning to somewhere in the vicinity of the organ, if it actually exists, works for me.
    2) is there someone who actually references to some electronic device, and is there potential as to its accuracy and there understanding as to how that actually works
    3) should the piano actually be in tune with A440 as to what the particular customer is accustomed to hearing, and or what they have lived with for years.
    4) there may be more reasons, but I forget these days what those might be at the time of this post.

    So, until I actually talk with the customers in particular and ask, "What is your situation?", I establish the following, guidelines to learn what their particulars are regardless of specs dictated by others, or the current understanding with piano technology versed as to what is.

    It works for me in the world I live in anyhow.

    Best to the rest of you in how you determine what should be done, or what should be left alone.

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    tune-repair@allegiance.tv

    Original Message


  • 9.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 23:32
    RIght, 256 is 2 to the 8th power. It's a numerology thing. Rather daft, as those numbers (cps = Hz) are referring back to the completely arbitrary time unit of the second, which is, what, 1/86400th of the time a particular planet spins on its axis one time, more or less. But people do believe this sort of nonsense. I guess they feel the need to believe something or other.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 10.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 00:26
    >  I guess they feel the need to believe something or other.

    Everyone needs something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer.

    -- G

    -------------------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-17-2013 09:55
    The Schiller Instutute has published a big, hardcover book which they donate to university libraries. It is full of convoluted metaphysical arguments about pitch standards, guaranteed to impress the naive and magically inclined. ------------------------------------------- Ed Sutton Editor Piano Technicians Journal ed440@me.com 704-536-7926 -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 12.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-16-2013 22:49

    Roger

    The first question I would have asked was, why? Why do you want the piano tuned to C256?  Regardless of the answer, the next question would have been: Do you understand what that means? As Paul and Ron said, he probably has no clue what it means, or why, but wants to sound like he knows what he's talking about. Then just tell him the fork you use is ideally suited to tune the piano to the pitch he wants.

    -------------------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 13.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 00:24
    "C" at 256 would be "C4". Forrest states that this is the "philosopher's C". 
    "C5" would therefore be 512. 

    A standard "A" fork is at 440.
    A standard "C" fork is at 523.3. (I think.)

    If not before, we learn from the PTG tuning exam that using a "C" fork to set temperament will result in an "A" that is NOT at 440. Therefore, setting a temperament using an "A" fork will result in a "C" that is NOT at 523.3.

    What would "A" be if temperament were set using a "C" fork?
    What would "C" be if temperament were set using an "A" fork?

    Unless I'm missing something, neither of the two ETD's I use offer a temperament based on "C". Not that I actually need it but in the event that I, too, am requested to tune a piano to a temperament based on whatever note at whatever frequency, how much would I have to offset the starting point of "A" in order to achieve that? There has to be a formula for it. 


    -- G


    -------------------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 14.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 01:33
    Geoff,

    All your other numbers are correct. The answer to the questions below are already correctly stated in your post. The only reason tuning from a C fork would not result in A being 440 is inharmonicity and octave stretching, plus human error.

    If you multiply (A)440 by the cube of the 12th root of two (1.059463...), you get (C)523.25. ( The cube because you're solving for the note 3 half-steps away).

    For precise numbers, though, one should multiply by the 12th root of 2.x, where x is the amount of inharmonicity in the octave whose intervals you wish to calculate. Of course, this quantity x varies even within the said octave, due to scaling anomalies, and I don't know how to solve that. Maybe the 12th root of 2 is close enough for discussion, and the difference in tuning is too small to hear. Shrug?

    To calculate A4 from C5=512, divide 512 by the cube of the 12th root of 2 = 430.5... So I think that makes the Philosophers' A=430.5. Did I do that right?

    Sodden thought: let's scrap the entire installed base of musical instruments the world over and start over with a new standard pitch. Hey, think of the jobs it would create!

    ~Mark Schecter


    Original Message


  • 15.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 01:48
    Ow. My head hurts.

    -------------------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 02:13
    Sorry. I just used a calculator, but figuring out how to do cubes and nth roots did take some head-scratching. But once you get that working, it's really pretty straightforward.

    Here's a fun one: calculate the factor for half-steps in an octave+fifth (19th), i.e. 19-tone ET.

    ~Mark Schecter


    Original Message


  • 17.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 08:25
    Geoff,  It's because you had another beer ;>)

    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    Glenn Korff School of Music
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 18.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 09:46
    "Sodden thought: let's scrap the entire installed base of musical instruments the world over and start over with a new standard pitch. Hey, think of the jobs it would create!" I think the "sodden" thought came after the beer <G> Then again, maybe some congressman would think it was a good idea, judging by the level of intelligence and common sense we have been witnessing. ------------------------------------------- Fred Sturm University of New Mexico fssturm@unm.edu http://fredsturm.net "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 19.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-18-2013 09:03
    Mark you are right. Simply set your tuning device to A=430.5 and you'll get the C you want...maybe....begin tuning with the
    C you want, if you tune by ear. I use the up a 3rd, up a 3rd down a fifth method from C. I still think there is so much room for
    variation that the C will only be that perfect C256 for a very short time....until the humidity changes things. For people who only
    recognize A-440 as being A (those with so called perfect pitch)..then tuning to A=430.5 could be a real problem.

    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 06-02-2014 13:42
    I know it's last December, but Geoff Sykes has 'got' something there. Will a piano tuned to A=440 end up with the C at 523.3? I haven't the means of checking this but according to my Reblitz (page 41) the C above middle C should be 523.251. All this is assuming the use of E.T.  I have just come horribly unstuck trying to replicate the Farley/Serkin temperament on my S&S - so I quickly retuned it to E.T. I think I must have overlooked some fundamental aspect like 2+2=4 thingy - or maybe the deviations from E.T. are in cents not cycles....  Michael (UK)

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 21.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-02-2014 14:13
    Michael,
    Yes, the deviations in the table are definitely cents, not Hertz. As to whether a "perfectly tuned" A440 and a "perfectly tuned" ET will result in exactly C523.3 or C523.251 or whatever, the answer depends on what your level of precision actually is. It will be close enough for musical purposes, maybe not for "scientific" or "argumentative" purposes.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou



    Original Message


  • 22.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 06-03-2014 14:11
    I have been cogitating on the Hz/Cents question and the same 2+2=4 business comes up again. I appreciate how obvious it is that at A4 the Hz is 440 and that the Cents is measured between A and the next semi-tone up or down (like shares really...) If, for example, we take the difference between A4 and G#4 there's approx 24.695Hz difference. This is spread out between the two notes and divided by 100 to give us the Cents difference from one note to the other. Apply this same approcah to A4 and A#4. Here the difference is 26.164Hz. A bit more. This is divided by 100 to give us the Cents between those two notes. Now because we've gone 'up' the scale the cents are getting logarithmically larger and, of course, the same applies going 'down' the scale, but in fewer Hz. and consequently smaller value Cents.(again like those shares, but would they were as predictable!) One can, of course, plot the size of the Cents between the semi-tones right throughout the range of the piano going from note to note. Now when we get to laying the foundation for a given Temperament - I'm thinking about the figures for Serkin/Farley - the figures given showing + or - to the pitch in Cents against the E.T. scale - for any given note must surely change as we inspect any 8ve. outside the 'bearing' 8ve. Or am I totally up the pole here? Anyone for tennis?  Michael (UK) 

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 23.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-03-2014 15:21
    Because cents are logarithmic, they stay constant in every octave (leaving aside inharmonicity). 

    At A4, a half step up or down is about 25 Hz. It is also 100 cents. So there are about 4 cents per Hertz right there and only there, but it is a handy reference. Go down to A3 and a half step up or down is about 12.5 Hz. Same 100 cents equivalent, so there it is 8 cents per Hertz. And at A5, 2 cents per Hertz.

    You asked if there is an app. There are a few professional quality apps that will accept cents offsets for temperaments and that are on a professional level. Tune Lab, Verituner, and Cybertuner are the main three, in order of price ($400 - $1000, for iPhone, etc.)

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 06-04-2014 13:30
    Thanks, Fred. My son loaded 'Waves' on my SonyXPERIA i-Phone. There is a weeks' 'trial' period. It works and I tuned my S&S with it. I don't think it liked being moved from E.T. to U.T however slight the deviations may be. The i-phone had a horrid way of momentarily repeating, audibly, the note being tuned but it totally destroys one's hearing for tuning purposes. Reducing the speaker output of the 'phone dealt with that so now all is serene - even here in Sunny Sussex-by-the-Sea. I shall retune my S&S tomorrow to see whether things improve. There is a yard-stick - those two MP3s of the Farley/Serkin temperament which I was able to listen to on my ElectroVoice Studio Monitors (Sentry 100A) - pretty old now, but good. Had to have the cone-foam replaced about ten years ago due to break-down by sunshine.  Michael (UK)

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 25.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 06-05-2014 10:38
    I have now embedded the FarleySerkin temperament on my S&S and after the second tuning today I was able to compare its sound with that of the MP3s we have been able to listen to. Very favourable, vibrant and NO ear clinching! Now I have to get out and 'sell' it!
    The 'waves' app. my son downloaded to my i-'phone is now permanent. It is a good system with a very clear readout - if, like mine, your 'phone re-aligns itself from Vert to Hor. I prefer the Vert. for the needle is longer and with better visibility. The quality of discrimination of frequencies depends very much on the quality of your 'phone. My Sony 'XPERIA', for instance, is not as good as my son's Samsung i9300 - what seems to happen with my 'phone is that the 'waves' programme stops working occasionally. With the Samsung there seems to be no problem. The good thing about 'waves' (I don't know about other apps.) is that you can import any temperament by simply selecting the notes and then deleting the '0's , replacing them with the deviation for that particular note from E.T.  SOLD!
    Michael (UK)

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 26.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Member
    Posted 06-02-2014 16:20
    If A is 440, C will be 523.251 if there is no inharmonicity. In fact, C will be a tad sharper, depending on the piano.

    -------------------------------------------
    Jason Kanter
    Bellevue WA
    425-830-1561
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    Original Message


  • 27.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-02-2014 17:03
    Right, a "tad" sharper, varying depending on how much you stretch. But not significantly from a musical point of view. When I decided to switch from C to A fork some 25 years ago, I experimented a bit.I would tune using the C fork and check A4 with the A fork: couldn't hear a difference, no perceptible beat. Did it the other way, and the same result.

    Then, in taking the RPT test, I found I couldn't match fork pitch within 1 cent. I would usually be about 1.5 cents off. Not that any of my customers ever complained that I didn't nail pitch. Today, using an ETD, I have no problem floating pitch up to 2 cents on a concert instrument, if the situation calls for it (ie, better stability).

    BTW, going back to the December post Michael was commenting on, Floyd was making a mathematical error. His C4 is fine (comparing it at A440 to A432 or C256), but his C5 he multiplied wrong, comparing 526 to the 440 equivalent (523.3). Should have compared 512. It would still be in the somewhat more than 30 cent range.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------



    Original Message


  • 28.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-02-2014 17:27
    A tad sharper is a great thing to say, Fred.

    I still think if one take the A'49 note on a piano.  Mute one string to 439.9, the middle one at A440. and then the right string at 440.1. then ask who asks the correct pitch, nobody can tell unless a guess..   It's all a guess on the right day which one is right.  The perfect pitch thing is all just "around the correct  pitch. there we go again.  Of course I know people who just say, Oh that's d.  It's all realitive. Cant't be perfect at all at any time. humidity, temperature, anything.  Of course, this is anal.  There is no perfect. Just wait a minute and humidity changes or whatever.  Where is perfection?  Not to be had.

    Again, the fork goes up and down.  No perfect pitches anywhere! Thats it.

    Sorry, I ramble.
    Paul;


    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    Glenn Korff School of Music
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 29.  RE: Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 06-03-2014 03:24
    Thanks, Fred, just what I thought. I only tuned about three 8ves to see what it sounded like - and quickly retuned them. It was horrible. I was wrong. My TLA doesn't give the bearings according to the Tim Farley/Peter Serkin temperament - only about 15 or so historical temperaments + E.T. The case is, then, to find a means of setting that Serkin by other means. Are there apps for this? Michael (UK)

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 30.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-17-2013 14:32
    Here's an article and sums up the pitch issue....

    basically, tune the piano to 432 to get the C-256 pitch...

    http://longform.org/stories/pitch-battles

    Your customer may be a singer, or interested in this touted "mystical" sound.

    A friend of mine in Japan inquired about it last fall.

    This A-432 is sometimes referred to as the Verdi pitch.

    Many of us tune Harpsichords/Fortepianos, etc at A-428 or lower.

    I do have the Schiller institute book at home. I have read it.

    Some could argue about a certain amount of quakery with regard to the mystical
    properties of this system, but you can read the book and decide
    for yourselves.

    I got email today from one the symphony board that a certain concert pianist
    would not play his piano because it was flat (437), though
    that same pianist (from Europe)...plays all over Europe
    where the pitch can be upwards of A- 448. Supposedly he
    has perfect pitch. He claimed it hurt his ears to play that
    piano. (The owner asked me NOT to raise the pitch, by the way).

    At one concert  this pianist played on a Liszt Erard,
    which I believe is tuned to A-428.!!!

    Seems to be a lot of voodoo going on here.

    Cheers....


    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins

    Piano Technician

    Coe College

    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 31.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-17-2013 16:34
    I hope this link to the British pianoforte tuners comes through http://www.piano-tuners.org/history/pitch.html ------------------------------------------- Larry Messerly, RPT Bringing Harmony to Homes www.prescottpiano.com larry@prescottpiano.com 928-445-3888 -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 32.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-18-2013 11:13


    -------------------------------------------
    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
    -------------------------------------------
    Richard,
    Thanks for the link to the pitch controversy article known as "Verdi Pitch". The article is enlightening and explains the reasoning behind my clients request. Coincidently, the colleague of my customer called me while I was reading the link and confirmed that what my customer wanted was the "Verdi Pitch" -- a pitch at which some singers prefer to sing. After I posted the original thread, I remembered that I had an audio frequency generator. I connected it to my sound system, and set it to 256 Hz., I turned on my strobe tuner and set it to "C", adjusting the cents vernier until it "zeroed out" the drift pattern, and behold, it indicated that 256 Hz. is equal to standard pitch (A-440) minus 42 cents. Thanks again.
     
    Roger





    Original Message

    -------------------------------------------
    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
    -------------------------------------------

    Today I had a customer ask me to tune his piano to "256 cps", but he didn't know which note he was referring to. I presumed he meant C4 because that is the closest note (when tuned to standard pitch) to his 256cps request. Because I tune aurally and only have a strobe tuner (with only a cents vernier scale), I don't have any way to determine how many cents C4 -256 is deviated from standard A-440. I don't do historical tunings. Does anybody know if this is a "standard" historical pitch?

    Roger Gable













  • 33.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-18-2013 12:21
    -42 cents should certainly make it easier for a singer to hit those high notes. But is your client aware that their piano, assuming that it was made in the last century or so, was designed for A 440 or thereabouts, and that lowering the pitch that much will tend towards a "flabby-loose guitar string" sound? I'm jus' sayin'...

    -------------------------------------------
    Alan Eder
    Valencia CA
    661-904-6483
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    Original Message


  • 34.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-18-2013 13:25
    I'm playing around with my Tunelab app.  In my Steinway D tuning curve, C4 falls in at 261.43 when A4 is at 440.  Offsetting C4 to 256 gives me a deviation of -36.35 cents.  But transpose a couple of digits, and something else interesting shows up.  If C5 is tuned to 526, A4 lands at A442.18.  This represents a deviation of 8.57 cents.

    -------------------------------------------
    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-721-9699
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 35.  RE:Cents Deviation Calculation

    Posted 12-19-2013 09:29
    I tuned an antique piano this summer that was set at A-430. It sounded just fine.
    I pulled it up to A-440 and it sounded just fine there, too. There was no problem
    with slack strings. You'll note that C-256 is 9 HERZ sharp of a B (w/A=440)...

    It will take some doing to lower the pitch, though.
    Have fun.

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    Richard Adkins
    Coe College Music Department
    Piano Technician
    Cedar Rapids IA
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