Pianotech

Hello,

 

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

 

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Look into waterbased acrylics.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Walter Wurdack Industrial Finishes is the supplier to Steinway
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack

Wurdack		remove preview
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack Specialized Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer, Walter Wurdack provides protective and custom coatings for applications using acrylics, epoxies, enamels, fluoropolymers, cellulosics, polyurethanes, silicones, and vinyls. View this on Wurdack >

------------------------------
Gerry
Gerald P. Cousins, RPT ~ Director of Piano Service and Resources
West Chester University of PA
gcousins@wcupa.edu
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

For what it's worth, I rebuilt two Steinway grands for Mr. Wurdack when I was in St. Louis. He insisted I use his lacquer. At that time, while it might be good for football helmets, it wasn't too good for pianos. The lacquer dried too fast, and didn't settle into the grain.  I only used it on one other piano, but then went back to regular lacquer.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2015 06:55
From: Gerald Cousins
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Walter Wurdack Industrial Finishes is the supplier to Steinway
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack

Wurdack		remove preview
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack Specialized Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer, Walter Wurdack provides protective and custom coatings for applications using acrylics, epoxies, enamels, fluoropolymers, cellulosics, polyurethanes, silicones, and vinyls. View this on Wurdack >

------------------------------
Gerry
Gerald P. Cousins, RPT ~ Director of Piano Service and Resources
West Chester University of PA
gcousins@wcupa.edu
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

This is timely...

I'm trying to locate a solvent based black lacquer with appropriate jet
black colorant to give to my refinisher...he's an excellent experienced
finisher but not versed in the blacks of piano-land. Personally I use a
water based acrylic and am set for blacks in acrylic, but he prefers to
use solvent based products in his shop. Any other experiences regarding
the Wurdack reduced solvent finishes?...problems waiting to happen?
Other solvent based appropriate blacks?


Original Message------

Walter Wurdack Industrial Finishes is the supplier to Steinway
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack

Wurdack		remove preview
Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer for Protective and Custom Coating by Walter Wurdack Specialized Industrial Coatings and Paint Manufacturer, Walter Wurdack provides protective and custom coatings for applications using acrylics, epoxies, enamels, fluoropolymers, cellulosics, polyurethanes, silicones, and vinyls. View this on Wurdack >

------------------------------
Gerry
Gerald P. Cousins, RPT ~ Director of Piano Service and Resources
West Chester University of PA
gcousins@wcupa.edu
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Jim, 'your guy' needs to get with the times and use w/b acrylic. I'm certain once he gets used to them, he'll appreciate the benefits. CrystaLac is a real good black (matches poly on touch ups).

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------

My transition from lacquer to acrylic for case finishing was life changing (in more ways than one). Acrylics make lacquer obsolete for production wood finishing in my opinion. Lacquer is still needed on the plate.

The higher build properties of acrylics is a real time saver.  Not to mention the lower toxicity.

-------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I personally agree, but the finishing pro's are real slow on this point.
Myself, I don't use any of the nasty's in my shop. However, I may just
try and convince him again to give it another try.

I still would like to see if there are some perhaps more recent
in-the-trenches reviews than Wim's, as his review sounds like it might
have been a while ago. Though I do know the reformulated enamels in
architechtural lines are seriously challenged products. They can't hold
a candle to the more advanced acrylics. I never use the reformulated
solvent products any more, architecturally, for performance, ease of
use, and environmental reasons...a win, win, win for the acrylics in my
view .

I had heard something about S&S decision to move to polyester, if they
have indeed moved to polyester, being inspired by some cure issues. The
story went that a load of finished pianos finished with the reformulated
lacquers didn't cure hard and had moving blanket imprints in pressure
areas. Anybody know if this is apocrypha or actually an issue?


Original Message------

My transition from lacquer to acrylic for case finishing was life changing (in more ways than one). Acrylics make lacquer obsolete for production wood finishing in my opinion. Lacquer is still needed on the plate.

The higher build properties of acrylics is a real time saver.  Not to mention the lower toxicity.

-------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I know that Steinway finishes of the 90s to at least just past 2000 tended to be soft, and that the rubber buttons on the lid made very noticeable dents in the rim finish, sometimes embedding enough to be pulled out of the hole (customers' pianos and one D in UNM recital hall - the latter just being slight dents in the rim finish). I wouldn't be surprised if there were moving blanket marks as well, though I never saw any.

I understood Steinway NY changed to Poly high polish for all Ds a few years back. I suspect durability was the issue, and the ability to either polish out scratches or do ding fills in a predictable way was part of the picture. A satin lacquer finish takes more skill to touch up successfully, especially to put back in "like new" condition. Especially an issue with C&A instruments, getting moved all the time.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2015 20:46
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

I personally agree, but the finishing pro's are real slow on this point.
Myself, I don't use any of the nasty's in my shop. However, I may just
try and convince him again to give it another try.

I still would like to see if there are some perhaps more recent
in-the-trenches reviews than Wim's, as his review sounds like it might
have been a while ago. Though I do know the reformulated enamels in
architechtural lines are seriously challenged products. They can't hold
a candle to the more advanced acrylics. I never use the reformulated
solvent products any more, architecturally, for performance, ease of
use, and environmental reasons...a win, win, win for the acrylics in my
view .

I had heard something about S&S decision to move to polyester, if they
have indeed moved to polyester, being inspired by some cure issues. The
story went that a load of finished pianos finished with the reformulated
lacquers didn't cure hard and had moving blanket imprints in pressure
areas. Anybody know if this is apocrypha or actually an issue?

Generally, a satin black finish is the  easiest to restore. The problem arises is when the final coats are flat clear coats over the black; so when a drop of straight black is placed onto the finish, it appears to float above the surface due to the clear top coat.

I've been told to mix the black 50/50 with clear to 'drop-in' repairs. Haven't had the opportunity yet...

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I'd look for a new refinisher.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

In my neck of the woods, finding a good specific piano refinisher is
easier said than done. In the Boston area, piano refinishers are few and
far between. Those that are here are unreliable, as in they are either
too busy doing more lucrative refinishing work than pianos, part time
(very), showing up only when the celestial bodies are in proper
alighnment, or just leaving the business altogether. The health and
saftey and environmnental controls are too hard to handle with such a
high labor, low profit process....it just doesn't , make financial
sense. I just lost my stripping company to environental/safety/lousy
money factors.

Its a real problem and bottleneck around here. So if I find a good guy,
who does what he says, when he says he will do it, I pay attention and
pat him on the back, with a smile.


Original Message------

I'd look for a new refinisher.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Jim,

I've used the Wurdack ebony solvent based lacquer and had very good success with it. There was a time when Steinways delivered in this area had a soft finish but that's been quite a while back, it was the least of the problems with those pianos. If your guy is like me, retooling a shop set up for solvent based is more hassle than he wants to deal with. 

Disclaimer: yes, I've tried water base finishes and yes I like them for some things. Nitro cellulose lacquer is the easiest to touch up and repair for me. 

My humble opinion,

Dale

------------------------------
Dale Probst
Registered Piano Technician
Wichita Falls TX
dale@wardprobst.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2015 20:46
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

I personally agree, but the finishing pro's are real slow on this point.
Myself, I don't use any of the nasty's in my shop. However, I may just
try and convince him again to give it another try.

I still would like to see if there are some perhaps more recent
in-the-trenches reviews than Wim's, as his review sounds like it might
have been a while ago. Though I do know the reformulated enamels in
architechtural lines are seriously challenged products. They can't hold
a candle to the more advanced acrylics. I never use the reformulated
solvent products any more, architecturally, for performance, ease of
use, and environmental reasons...a win, win, win for the acrylics in my
view .

I had heard something about S&S decision to move to polyester, if they
have indeed moved to polyester, being inspired by some cure issues. The
story went that a load of finished pianos finished with the reformulated
lacquers didn't cure hard and had moving blanket imprints in pressure
areas. Anybody know if this is apocrypha or actually an issue?

Your original question seems to be about small touch up on older pianos.

Try artists acrylics in tubes. Ivory black is carbon pigment, very dark black. Mars black is iron pigment, not quite as dark as Ivory. Early Steinway pianos most likely had a black varnish using carbon black pigment, possibly with a black stain or dye underneath.

Acrylic paints change color when they dry, so do a preliminary test.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Thanks Ed that sounds like an awesome idea, even to keep with our bag on the go for in home piano tuning customers. 

How many times have we scratched black paint trying to get the key block/ fallboard combos back inside? 

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-02-2015 10:44
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Your original question seems to be about small touch up on older pianos.

Try artists acrylics in tubes. Ivory black is carbon pigment, very dark black. Mars black is iron pigment, not quite as dark as Ivory. Early Steinway pianos most likely had a black varnish using carbon black pigment, possibly with a black stain or dye underneath.

Acrylic paints change color when they dry, so do a preliminary test.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

This might also sound silly, but i planned on brushing an old steinway completly with the best matching black paint, and then using spar varnish 3X shine clear gloss poly over the top. For a unique, fast and easy rejuvination of an old finish.

Anyone try this?

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Smooth foam brush, then light fine sand, repeat, then poly gloss high shine.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2015 11:02
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

This might also sound silly, but i planned on brushing an old steinway completly with the best matching black paint, and then using spar varnish 3X shine clear gloss poly over the top. For a unique, fast and easy rejuvination of an old finish.

Anyone try this?

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------

Just for reference, as you are not looking for a spray can - Konig has a very nice ebony in aerosol that works well for touching up Steinways, such as in stage situations where you just want a quick fix. The code is 372-758. Ruth Zeiner

------------------------------
Ruth Zeiner
ruth@alliedpiano.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2015 18:03
From: Leif Mathisen
Subject: Black Satin Steinway Paint, Where to get?

Hello,

I have a few old Steinway uprights and wish to use the best matching black satin paint, in a bucket, not spray can. To touch up bear wood spots.

The original Steinway paints appear to have much more black pigment in them, yes? All the newer stuff I have used seems to lack the darkness of the old paints. 

Thank you.

------------------------------
Leif Mathisen
Piano Technician Steinway of Bellevue
Redmond WA
425-628-4356
------------------------------