Pianotech

I've just been asked to tune an older Bluthner grand.  I've only done that once, about 35 years ago.

How do I tune the 4th string?

<grin> for awhile I did them every summer for a 2-piano workshop.

Of course, the older ones have the fourth string further down the scale than the newer ones.

You need two wedge mutes. I like the felt ones.

First, tune the left string, with the first mute between the center and the right string, and the second mute between the right string and the fourth string.

Second, remove the first mute, and tune the center string to the left string.

Third, move the second mute so it damps the fourth string but not the right string. Tune the right string.

If your Bluethner is like the ones I've seen, the three main strings will be very clean sounding, so the tone is sort of subdued and "white". While presumably the fourth string gives resonance, I think that what it really does, given the non-ideal termination, is to add some mess and beats to the sound, so that it can sustain and carry better. I think that the fourth string, properly tuned, can also improve tuning stability for the other three.

Now that you have only the fourth string to tune, pluck it with the right string to get it into the ball park. Then, while playing the whole note unmuted, I nudge the fourth string up and down very small amounts, until I get a tone and character of unison I like. Then I pluck the fourth and third strings again to be sure they are still on the same pitch.

I hope this helps.

Your description of the fourth string is different that what I have experienced. The several times I have encountered them the fourth string rides pretty much centered but above the other three by perhaps two or three millimeters. It is not struck by the the hammer at all. They are so quiet that I have never needed to mute them while doing the normal tuning. When I'm done with the normal tuning I go back and play and hold the note and then pluck the fourth string to make it sound loud enough to even hear. In the middle (treble) section the fourth string is tuned up an octave.Once you get above the treble break it is tuned as a unison. These purely sympathetically activated strings add depth and character to the tone, so I have been told. 

-- GS

Geoff, I have found that I can get a much cleaner unison on the three speaking strings if I mute the fourth. It makes a big difference to the timbre when I take the mute off the fourth string. So I tune the timbre, so to speak.

Your description of the fourth string is different that what I have experienced. The several times I have encountered them the fourth string rides pretty much centered but above the other three by perhaps two or three millimeters. It is not struck by the the hammer at all. They are so quiet that I have never needed to mute them while doing the normal tuning. When I'm done with the normal tuning I go back and play and hold the note and then pluck the fourth string to make it sound loud enough to even hear. In the middle (treble) section the fourth string is tuned up an octave.Once you get above the treble break it is tuned as a unison. These purely sympathetically activated strings add depth and character to the tone, so I have been told. 

-- GS

That's interesting, Wim. I haven't seen one that old. It looks like the muting felt is of the waste length, behind the bridge?

I can't quite tell what that bridge arrangement is, in the middle of the speaking length of the main notes. Does the fourth string have two segments set at different pitches?

There's an awful lot of rust, but I suppose that's par for the course in Hawaii. Any signs it's been breaking wire?

Susan

<grin> for awhile I did them every summer for a 2-piano workshop.

Of course, the older ones have the fourth string further down the scale than the newer ones.

You need two wedge mutes. I like the felt ones.

First, tune the left string, with the first mute between the center and the right string, and the second mute between the right string and the fourth string.

Second, remove the first mute, and tune the center string to the left string.

Third, move the second mute so it damps the fourth string but not the right string. Tune the right string.

If your Bluethner is like the ones I've seen, the three main strings will be very clean sounding, so the tone is sort of subdued and "white". While presumably the fourth string gives resonance, I think that what it really does, given the non-ideal termination, is to add some mess and beats to the sound, so that it can sustain and carry better. I think that the fourth string, properly tuned, can also improve tuning stability for the other three.

Now that you have only the fourth string to tune, pluck it with the right string to get it into the ball park. Then, while playing the whole note unmuted, I nudge the fourth string up and down very small amounts, until I get a tone and character of unison I like. Then I pluck the fourth and third strings again to be sure they are still on the same pitch.

I hope this helps.

I use mutes and an ETA.  Tune the sounding strings one at a time, then use a guitar pick for the fourth one.

Dear Folks,

This is an 1883 Bluthner, been in the family since day one, was restrung about 30 years ago. An interesting challenge each visit. I'm with Susan on muting that 4th string while tuning the 3 others; the beat of that wire is quite audible and distracting to tuning the unison.  Pluck to get it close, pulling and balancing it just barely to the sharp side, and then a firm blow to get things moving (vibrating the strings, bridges and soundboard) with a final tweak to balance the aliquot 4th into the unison. I find that just plucking is not stable for the tuning of that wire. For me; the final set of the suspended wire requires the full unison to be 'in motion'. Practice, practice, practice.....

I tuned one of these recently and found the most straightforward and practical way to get the 4th string in tune was to use a rubber mute to touch the node of the main string to bring out the 2nd partial and then pluck the aliquot string. On this particular example the tone of the aliquot string was not clean, and trying to tune it based on the whole tone of the main string was not easy. 

It was a lot like tuning guitar strings using harmonics. Once I figured this out it was quite easy and the owner was very happy. 

Dear Ryan,

Perhaps the more recent stringing helps with my client's piano, as the tone and clarity are quite nice. Perhaps you can persuade them to restring, refurbish....(gasp!) even rebuild? Truly, I do enjoy this piano. And the action is interesting, too. Bluthner Patent Action.....

Dear Ryan,

Perhaps the more recent stringing helps with my client's piano, as the tone and clarity are quite nice. Perhaps you can persuade them to restring, refurbish....(gasp!) even rebuild? Truly, I do enjoy this piano. And the action is interesting, too. Bluthner Patent Action.....

Jeffrey

This Bluthner actiion is also known as the 'three spring action' - for obvious reasons.

Here is the set-up procedure for this old action from an early Bluthner Handbook. for Uprights and Grands. First the Upright:

Advice on how to produce a good touch on the

Bluthner Upright Pianoforte

"The separate operations must be carried out strictly in the following order"

1. Setting-up: On striking and then then allowing the key to rise slowly, the jack should fall easily into position.

2. Set-off: with the aid of the set-off dolly, the set-off is adjusted in such a way that the hammer head releases 3mm from the bass and 2mm from the treble strings.

3. Checks: The hammer should check 18mm from the strings.

4. Damping: The spoon on the end of the action lever should make contact with the tail of the damper when the nose of the hammer is at hals-blow.

5. Touch:  By slowly depressig the key the hammer head is brought to the set-off point. Then by further light pressure on the key, the hammer head should fall back. The touch depth should be 10.5mm.

Advice on how to produce a good touch on the

Bluthner Action in a Bluthner Grand

The necessary operations must be carried out strictly in the following order.

The fitting of the BLUTHNER-action is based on a touch-depth of 9 mm and on a hammer-blow of 43 mm (originally 45mm)

1. The hammer flange screws should be tightened. The hammerheads must then be spaced exactly on the strings.

2. Setting-up. The jack mus be so adjusted, by means of the carriage which is screwed on to the key, that it drops quite easliy under the nose of the abstract. The guide-pin of the abstract must be straight and vertical.

3. Set-off. The hammers should release 1.5mm from the steel strings and half a string thickness from the bass strings. The set-off screws for this adjustment are situated on the hammer rest rail.

4. Touch. Contrary to the Erard action, the touch is made quite firm. The key is depressed slowly on to the touch-baize, after which the hammer should continue to rise 1mm, till it releases, so that it checks only on striking the key strongly.   (No after-touch).

5. Checks. The checks should be adjusted at a slightly freater angle than on the Erard actiion. The check point is 24mm above the normal hammer tail line.

6, Drop:  The right-angled repetition spring which controls the drop should have a thickness of 0.85mm. in the treble, 0.95mm. in the middle range and 1mm. in the bass; the guide pin of the abstract must move easily in the bridge leathers so that the abstract drops of its own weight. The repetition springs must move freely in the abstract felt clips and by pressure of either side of the right angled spring, the drop is controlled. The hammer head should release 3mm from the steel strings.

7. It is now necessary again to check the touch throughout.

8. The dampers should lift when the keys are half depressed.

9. The damper shade-rail must be adjusted in such a way that when depressing the sharps, there is very little play.

10. The coiled spring which is attached to the abstract should in the normal position of the key not rest on the jack, but remain about 3mm. from it.An even touch is of greatest importance.

I hope this is of some use to all involved with the old Bluthner pianos.

No-one has mentioned that the pitch of the Aliquot strings is both scaled and pitched one 8ve above the note to which it is attached. The exception is at the top where one 8ve (or so) is both by pitch and scaling the same as the note to which it is attached.

In these three spring grands I always have some brass spring of the correct diameter in my tool bag to replace those I find broken. A bit of this spring stuff makes a useful drill-bit for drilling into the key stick next to the broken-off old spring.

Michael   UK

Jeffrey

This Bluthner actiion is also known as the 'three spring action' - for obvious reasons.

Here is the set-up procedure for this old action from an early Bluthner Handbook. for Uprights and Grands. First the Upright:

Advice on how to produce a good touch on the

Bluthner Upright Pianoforte

"The separate operations must be carried out strictly in the following order"

1. Setting-up: On striking and then then allowing the key to rise slowly, the jack should fall easily into position.

2. Set-off: with the aid of the set-off dolly, the set-off is adjusted in such a way that the hammer head releases 3mm from the bass and 2mm from the treble strings.

3. Checks: The hammer should check 18mm from the strings.

4. Damping: The spoon on the end of the action lever should make contact with the tail of the damper when the nose of the hammer is at hals-blow.

5. Touch:  By slowly depressig the key the hammer head is brought to the set-off point. Then by further light pressure on the key, the hammer head should fall back. The touch depth should be 10.5mm.

Advice on how to produce a good touch on the

Bluthner Action in a Bluthner Grand

The necessary operations must be carried out strictly in the following order.

The fitting of the BLUTHNER-action is based on a touch-depth of 9 mm and on a hammer-blow of 43 mm (originally 45mm)

1. The hammer flange screws should be tightened. The hammerheads must then be spaced exactly on the strings.

2. Setting-up. The jack mus be so adjusted, by means of the carriage which is screwed on to the key, that it drops quite easliy under the nose of the abstract. The guide-pin of the abstract must be straight and vertical.

3. Set-off. The hammers should release 1.5mm from the steel strings and half a string thickness from the bass strings. The set-off screws for this adjustment are situated on the hammer rest rail.

4. Touch. Contrary to the Erard action, the touch is made quite firm. The key is depressed slowly on to the touch-baize, after which the hammer should continue to rise 1mm, till it releases, so that it checks only on striking the key strongly.   (No after-touch).

5. Checks. The checks should be adjusted at a slightly freater angle than on the Erard actiion. The check point is 24mm above the normal hammer tail line.

6, Drop:  The right-angled repetition spring which controls the drop should have a thickness of 0.85mm. in the treble, 0.95mm. in the middle range and 1mm. in the bass; the guide pin of the abstract must move easily in the bridge leathers so that the abstract drops of its own weight. The repetition springs must move freely in the abstract felt clips and by pressure of either side of the right angled spring, the drop is controlled. The hammer head should release 3mm from the steel strings.

7. It is now necessary again to check the touch throughout.

8. The dampers should lift when the keys are half depressed.

9. The damper shade-rail must be adjusted in such a way that when depressing the sharps, there is very little play.

10. The coiled spring which is attached to the abstract should in the normal position of the key not rest on the jack, but remain about 3mm. from it.An even touch is of greatest importance.

I hope this is of some use to all involved with the old Bluthner pianos.

No-one has mentioned that the pitch of the Aliquot strings is both scaled and pitched one 8ve above the note to which it is attached. The exception is at the top where one 8ve (or so) is both by pitch and scaling the same as the note to which it is attached.

In these three spring grands I always have some brass spring of the correct diameter in my tool bag to replace those I find broken. A bit of this spring stuff makes a useful drill-bit for drilling into the key stick next to the broken-off old spring.

Michael   UK

<grin> for awhile I did them every summer for a 2-piano workshop.

Of course, the older ones have the fourth string further down the scale than the newer ones.

You need two wedge mutes. I like the felt ones.

First, tune the left string, with the first mute between the center and the right string, and the second mute between the right string and the fourth string.

Second, remove the first mute, and tune the center string to the left string.

Third, move the second mute so it damps the fourth string but not the right string. Tune the right string.

If your Bluethner is like the ones I've seen, the three main strings will be very clean sounding, so the tone is sort of subdued and "white". While presumably the fourth string gives resonance, I think that what it really does, given the non-ideal termination, is to add some mess and beats to the sound, so that it can sustain and carry better. I think that the fourth string, properly tuned, can also improve tuning stability for the other three.

Now that you have only the fourth string to tune, pluck it with the right string to get it into the ball park. Then, while playing the whole note unmuted, I nudge the fourth string up and down very small amounts, until I get a tone and character of unison I like. Then I pluck the fourth and third strings again to be sure they are still on the same pitch.

I hope this helps.

Susan

I usually tune these Aliquot type Bluthners like a standard grand - just tuning the tricords. Then I start again with something to chip that Aliquot into tune an 8ve higher that the note it sounds with (until the top 8ve or so, when it's at the same pitch.)   

Michael   UK