Pianotech

A local rebuilding shop has asked for my help on a project. They had an employee do a tear down of a Mason & Hamlin without any supervision and said employee (former employee after this) removed the rim support bolts without recording any heights. My friends would like me to check the bolt heights before they re-string. The best I can figure is to use a similar procedure to the one I use to set the dowels on Steinways or old Masons. Does any one out there have a better suggestion? I'm really good at doing things badly but remain open to the possibility of performing competent service every now and then.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Original Message------

A local rebuilding shop has asked for my help on a project. They had an employee do a tear down of a Mason & Hamlin without any supervision and said employee (former employee after this) removed the rim support bolts without recording any heights. My friends would like me to check the bolt heights before they re-string. The best I can figure is to use a similar procedure to the one I use to set the dowels on Steinways or old Masons. Does any one out there have a better suggestion? I'm really good at doing things badly but remain open to the possibility of performing competent service every now and then.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Plate height is about string height and DB. What is your usual technique for setting Down bearing?  Re string height, did they record the string height bass and treble before breakdown. If not, is the action still extant? You could regulate 88 and 1 in the piano, and extrapolate string height. Also is the block is still in the piano, this can still give you 1 & 88 string height.

Also, current masons use WNG's adjustable plate bolts, so if you knew string height at the strike line, and had an idea what DB was going to work with this board, the plate bolts would allow you to fine tune plate height post stringing, to some degree.

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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2019 16:26
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Mason and Hamlin rim bolts

It's not so much the work plate height that's an issue as the gap between the rim and the plate at various places around the rim.  

The best thing to do is put the plate back in and screw it down on the plate.  If that's been removed, you might be out of luck and just work with the hearing issues after the plate is in and ready for stringing.  

Original Message------

A local rebuilding shop has asked for my help on a project. They had an employee do a tear down of a Mason & Hamlin without any supervision and said employee (former employee after this) removed the rim support bolts without recording any heights. My friends would like me to check the bolt heights before they re-string. The best I can figure is to use a similar procedure to the one I use to set the dowels on Steinways or old Masons. Does any one out there have a better suggestion? I'm really good at doing things badly but remain open to the possibility of performing competent service every now and then.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Nothing is good from original bolts height. You are dealing with different rim and different plate after years of releasing tensions from iron casting and glue- moisture redistribution in the rim and accumulating new tensions, warping, twisting and bending from plate- rim acting together against string tension itself, tuning frequencies,pitch level, climate fluctuation.... Poor former employee, they should hired him back....

Is plate height established (down bearing set)?

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

Plate height is about string height and DB. What is your usual technique for setting Down bearing?  Re string height, did they record the string height bass and treble before breakdown. If not, is the action still extant? You could regulate 88 and 1 in the piano, and extrapolate string height. Also is the block is still in the piano, this can still give you 1 & 88 string height.

Also, current masons use WNG's adjustable plate bolts, so if you knew string height at the strike line, and had an idea what DB was going to work with this board, the plate bolts would allow you to fine tune plate height post stringing, to some degree.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
------------------------------

Thanks all for your thoughts. Mr. Ialeggio, I set downbearing pretty much exactly as John Hartman described it some years ago in the journal. Probably because we both learned from branches of the same tree. In fact I even use some of the late Angelo Andino's tools to set the plate dowels. I'll see the piano tomorrow and then I'll know more about what if any reliable reference points are left. I've never worked on a Mason with plate support bolts. The ones I've done all had dowels although they were always much taller than the tallest Steinway dowels. I guess I'll look at the hammer shank center height and try to extrapolate a good string height. Shouldn't be too hard if they've not thrown away the old hammers yet. Then I'll try to produce a reasonable height at the rim based on the kind of bearing the board looks like it'll support. Like I said;I'm good at doing things badly.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2019 15:40
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Mason and Hamlin rim bolts

A local rebuilding shop has asked for my help on a project. They had an employee do a tear down of a Mason & Hamlin without any supervision and said employee (former employee after this) removed the rim support bolts without recording any heights. My friends would like me to check the bolt heights before they re-string. The best I can figure is to use a similar procedure to the one I use to set the dowels on Steinways or old Masons. Does any one out there have a better suggestion? I'm really good at doing things badly but remain open to the possibility of performing competent service every now and then.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Strings height equal hammer head boring distance plus shanks center height

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message------

Thanks all for your thoughts. Mr. Ialeggio, I set downbearing pretty much exactly as John Hartman described it some years ago in the journal. Probably because we both learned from branches of the same tree. In fact I even use some of the late Angelo Andino's tools to set the plate dowels. I'll see the piano tomorrow and then I'll know more about what if any reliable reference points are left. I've never worked on a Mason with plate support bolts. The ones I've done all had dowels although they were always much taller than the tallest Steinway dowels. I guess I'll look at the hammer shank center height and try to extrapolate a good string height. Shouldn't be too hard if they've not thrown away the old hammers yet. Then I'll try to produce a reasonable height at the rim based on the kind of bearing the board looks like it'll support. Like I said;I'm good at doing things badly.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Insert a flat headed, slotted screw in the perimeter bolt holes and screw them all the way down.  Drop in the plate.  Use the nose bolts to set the plate height re targeted downbearing settings (whatever you determine is needed for this piano), insert a screw driver through the perimeter bolt holes in the plate and raise the screws you've inserted until they just touch the bottom of the plate and then use those as a guide for reinstalling the original plate rests.

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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2019 21:52
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Mason and Hamlin rim bolts

Thanks all for your thoughts. Mr. Ialeggio, I set downbearing pretty much exactly as John Hartman described it some years ago in the journal. Probably because we both learned from branches of the same tree. In fact I even use some of the late Angelo Andino's tools to set the plate dowels. I'll see the piano tomorrow and then I'll know more about what if any reliable reference points are left. I've never worked on a Mason with plate support bolts. The ones I've done all had dowels although they were always much taller than the tallest Steinway dowels. I guess I'll look at the hammer shank center height and try to extrapolate a good string height. Shouldn't be too hard if they've not thrown away the old hammers yet. Then I'll try to produce a reasonable height at the rim based on the kind of bearing the board looks like it'll support. Like I said;I'm good at doing things badly.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2019 15:40
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Mason and Hamlin rim bolts

A local rebuilding shop has asked for my help on a project. They had an employee do a tear down of a Mason & Hamlin without any supervision and said employee (former employee after this) removed the rim support bolts without recording any heights. My friends would like me to check the bolt heights before they re-string. The best I can figure is to use a similar procedure to the one I use to set the dowels on Steinways or old Masons. Does any one out there have a better suggestion? I'm really good at doing things badly but remain open to the possibility of performing competent service every now and then.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message------

Thanks all for your thoughts. Mr. Ialeggio, I set downbearing pretty much exactly as John Hartman described it some years ago in the journal. Probably because we both learned from branches of the same tree. In fact I even use some of the late Angelo Andino's tools to set the plate dowels. I'll see the piano tomorrow and then I'll know more about what if any reliable reference points are left. I've never worked on a Mason with plate support bolts. The ones I've done all had dowels although they were always much taller than the tallest Steinway dowels. I guess I'll look at the hammer shank center height and try to extrapolate a good string height. Shouldn't be too hard if they've not thrown away the old hammers yet. Then I'll try to produce a reasonable height at the rim based on the kind of bearing the board looks like it'll support. Like I said;I'm good at doing things badly.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

As luck would have it the nose bolts and pinblock weren't moved. Thus the rim bolts could be adjusted similarly to the method outlined by Mr. Love. Then the string height was checked to see that it matched the stack height and hammer bore distance on the original parts and it all matched very well. Unloaded there is a ton of bearing but within what I've come to see as normal for a BB from this time period. Loaded the bearing is right where I've been told to set an original board and bridge on this model. The Bass has more bearing than I like to see but it's what they set at the factory. I advised my friends to use a slightly thicker shim under the stringing felt that was there originally. Thanks to everyone who responded.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:14
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Mason and Hamlin rim bolts

I think Dale Erwin tried those adjustable plate bolts. You would have to ask him. Seems like the easiest way to go. They probably have the procedure written out so you could see how they set the height before trying them.

Yeah,, left un supervised,,, it certainly wasn't the employees fault. I doubt there was a list of things to record or procedure. They will never forget this lesson. Why fired someone who is trained?

Original Message------

Thanks all for your thoughts. Mr. Ialeggio, I set downbearing pretty much exactly as John Hartman described it some years ago in the journal. Probably because we both learned from branches of the same tree. In fact I even use some of the late Angelo Andino's tools to set the plate dowels. I'll see the piano tomorrow and then I'll know more about what if any reliable reference points are left. I've never worked on a Mason with plate support bolts. The ones I've done all had dowels although they were always much taller than the tallest Steinway dowels. I guess I'll look at the hammer shank center height and try to extrapolate a good string height. Shouldn't be too hard if they've not thrown away the old hammers yet. Then I'll try to produce a reasonable height at the rim based on the kind of bearing the board looks like it'll support. Like I said;I'm good at doing things badly.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------