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New Yamaha P22 issues

  • 1.  New Yamaha P22 issues

    Member
    Posted 05-04-2022 08:28

     I have not seen this piano yet but am doing a service call tomorrow on it. A church purchased a new P22 and it played fine at delivery. However after one night the pianist is encountering all sorts of issues in the mid section and above. Keys are sticking, trouble with repetition and response, slow hammers, problems when the damper pedal is used. backchecking and blocking hammers. The piano is in a small church choir room in which the temperature is kept in the 70's. I suspect there is a humidity issue based on my years of experience with the issue on the South Carolina coast and inland. We have had some rather wild weather swings of late with some heavy rains but also cold temperatures at night going warm to hot in the day At the moment it is 73 but going up to 90 today . Churches and schools are not known for their control of the environment and many air conditioners fail to do the job they need to do. I have solved many humidity piano issues with Dampp-Chaser installs but that may be something down the road for stability .

    My question for techs - have you had any new P22's in the past months with problems like this ? My first approach will be to assess and document all of the problems I find followed by doing some action center testing, checking the letoff rail position, lost motion, damper timing, backchecking, bridal strap slack, action tightness, action brackets, blow, backcheck distance, letoff distance, pedal rods, Key fit need to ease bushings/ease balance rail hole.

    Of course I plan to have a temp and humidity gauge to record what the environment is and will possibly place a data logger.
    From what I was told the piano was fine right after delivery and had none of the reported problems.

    Could there be a structural issue ? Could it be poor factory or dealer prep ? I doubt it because Yamaha pianos I have seen have not had issues although I have not seen any of the new uprights....

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-04-2022 11:12
    Sounds to me that the mute rail is set too low, and hammers are getting stuck on the felt. 

    Wim





  • 3.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Posted 05-04-2022 11:16
    My guess is key sticks. Almost certainly balance holes and bushings need attention.

    John Formsma <caret></caret>

    Sent from ProtonMail for iOS





  • 4.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-04-2022 12:54

    The local dealership here has been having problems with the regulation of brand new uprights (Yamaha and other brands). The reason we're given is that the factory is so behind that they're trying to get pianos out as fast as possible. Thankfully the dealer here is trying to prep the pianos as best as they can, but it's still an issue. So far we've caught everything problematic in the store before it gets delivered. 

    As far as the issues you describe go, I would imagine it's probably a combination between humidity and regulation. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 5.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Member
    Posted 05-05-2022 03:08
    John:
    I service a brand new Yamaha GB1K. I tried to sell the client a Chickering 135 that we rebuilt but his sons piano teacher told him to buy a Yamaha. So he bought this Indonesian built Yamaha. I got a call that a key or two was sticking. I found the two keys: F#4 and G#4. I eased the balance holes and the front bushings which took care of it but when I pulled the keys up they all stuck up where I had left them so all the rest need easing. One can feel the resistance when playing the piano. So I think that your supposition is probably spot on about the P22. 

    Best regards,






  • 6.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Posted 05-05-2022 07:13
    Key sticks are the most logical supposition since they can cause every symptom originally listed. 

    A sudden regulation change of that nature isn't likely, nor is parts failure, since it's a new piano.  

    Spend an hour on the balance holes and both key bushings, and it should be back to normal. I'd also spray some Prolube on the balance pins and capstans while the keys are out.

    John Formsma<caret></caret>

    Sent from ProtonMail for iOS





  • 7.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Member
    Posted 05-05-2022 16:01
    Had one with same issues.  It was what Wim and John said.  Also humidity control issue.  I tended to ease balance hole and key bushings cautiously.  I'd rather do that than over do it.  Had to go back a second time, but with 3 heavy players using this piano it took no time at all for issues to go away.  I installed a PLS 5PS-38 with an extra rod under the key bed.  David Durban from Yamaha suggested leaving the key cover open to allow for better air circulation.  Yamaha pianos seem to have issues with balance hole and key bushings being too tight l.

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    [Wesley] [Gill[Designation]
    Apollo PA
    412-480-6125
    WesleyGillWesley
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  • 8.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-04-2022 23:13

    New, not sure. But used? I'd look first to see if the spring threads are breaking.







  • 9.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-05-2022 07:24
    I'd like to see how the factory installs key bushings. I experienced one on a P22 yesterday where the depth on one side of the front key bushing was twice the depth of the other side.

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 10.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Posted 05-05-2022 11:12
    I agree with the key sticks, especially the front rail. Yamahas tend to have tight front rails. As the wood shrinks and cures on the mainland, the mortise tightens up. This is a problem we have in dry arid climates. Not having any real techs up here in these foothills, easing the front rail of a Yamaha that has needed easing since it was new can make it a new piano. The lack of wear on the parts downstream because of the tightness is wonderful. 
    Just taking the key on and off to ease it can size the balance rail hole. 





  • 11.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Member
    Posted 05-05-2022 08:13
    I had the same problem several years ago when the first Chinese P22s were arriving in the school system. From about C5 up, the key bushings were tight mainly in the balance rail. I don't remember anything else but the keys were very sluggish in the upper half of the keyboard. 

    Cary Thrift Jr
    Royal Piano Service Inc
    770-517-9871
    www.royalpiano.com





  • 12.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Member
    Posted 05-05-2022 19:28
    Thanks to all who have responded with their suggestions and shared misery,,,

    There where 16 notes spread throughout the keyboard and of course Middle C was one as well as some B's. You could see some of the slow key return and in other cases the catchers would jam into the backchecks. I removed the fallboard and the key holddown rail and tested the worst 16 notes - all where slow sliding down the pin or just stuck when pulled up. Anyway very conservative easing of the bushings and balance rail hole as well as polishing the pin with Flitz fixed the slow/sticky keys but I noticed that there was no lost motion and the jacks did not get back under the butt on repetition. The capstan screws where sky high almost out of the keys. So a little lowering of the capstans gave the clearance needed. Testing repetition to make sure there was no bobbling plus putting the hammer in check and slowly releasing the key to check jack return got it where things worked properly. Just a tiny amount of finger pressure on the end of the key showed there was wiggle room after my adjustments. I then beat the tar out of the piano to induce a lockup but could not. Of course you know a pianist will do something crazy with their pedalling habits .

    I believe the piano will settle in after playing and the bushings will get wear on them to loosen the key. I do believe there are humidity issues even though the little gauge I brought was showing 50, 51, 52 with temps in the low 70's.  I will propose placing a data logger in the piano to get 24 x 7 readings for a week to 2. I am sure, based on past experiences, I will see some great graphs that look like earthquake graphs- sharp peaks and valleys. Only the shadow knows what goes on at night when the auto thermostat dials it back.  Its too soon to determine stability issues but a room dehumidifier in a corner sized for the room could make a huge impact. The next stage would be a PLS perhaps with an underkeybed dehumidifier rod. Since the PLS setpoint is 42-43% it would be cycling on and staying on most of the time///

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 13.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-05-2022 20:26
    In my experience, every new Yamaha piano I see, grand or upright, absolutely requires new piano prep. Tighten ALL the action screws. Ease ALL the keys. Make sure blow distance, lost motion and letoff are adequate and even across all notes. You can pretty much leave any other adjustments as they are. About half an hours work on an upright, maybe as long as an hour on a grand. Taking care of just these few items and the piano will be great to go and probably not require any further attention in the regulation/performance area for years.


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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 14.  RE: New Yamaha P22 issues

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-05-2022 22:42
    Geoff,

    Sounds like the old Yamaha Service Bond of the 70a and 80s. Every Yamaha piano sold in that era had a service card that required checking several regulation steps. It was sort of a pain, but it worked. Glad you still do that, Geoff.

    Richard West