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Re-entering university settings

  • 1.  Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-13-2020 12:45
    Hi All,

    I am having a zoom conversation with the head of the piano department on Monday,

    We are going to open for students to come back into practice rooms and classrooms, teaching studios, etc, and wonder what you are all doing to make things safe for all of us?

    I'm thinking of an every other practice room open for students, and wash hands before entering any rooms. I have no idea if ensembles or opera's will happen if, at all.

    We recently purchased a "Purpleglow" UV light 'wand' that I can hold over keys etc for a minimun of 5 seconds. It's about 2" wide and 6 inches long and is supposed to kill everything. I think better than constant wiping with wipes or alcohol. I'm not sure if long term wiping will hurt the keys or finish.  I tried some 91% alcholol on a spot on an old laquer finished upright. Just a drop on a cheekblock ate a hole in the finish over night, so I don't want to use it long term.

    Your input would be most helpful when I speak to the piano faculty on Monday.  
    Please let me know what your university is going to do.

    Thanks
    Paul

    ------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Director of Piano Services
    School of Music
    813 Assembly St
    University of South Carolina
    Columbia, SC 29208
    pwilliams@mozart.sc.edu
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-14-2020 06:42
    My school purchased some hydrogen peroxide wipes for the practice room pianos. My only concern is that they do not evaporate fully and now the keys have a layer of dried solution.
    I can clean this with Simple Green or Windex. I’m not sure what the plans for fall are, but I would propose using the studios on a 3-day rotation, i.e. Mon-Thurs-Sun-Wed, etc.

    As we all know, the length of time that the virus can exist on solid surfaces such as piano keys seems to be in debate with many respected sources having different views, but it
    seems that the 3-day estimate is still widely accepted.




  • 3.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 07:20
      |   view attached
    Jeffrey,

    Yes, wouldn't it be nice to get more consistent information about matters such as how long the coronavirus lingers on hard smooth surfaces?!

    But the three day period we have heard about, isn't that for the virus on a surface withOUT any cleaning?


    Paul,

    We are still very much trying to sort all of this out but here is where we are at the moment (with a guarantee that things will change!):

    The liberty with which practice pianos are used will be substantially curtailed. We are normally a 24/7 facility. That will likely change for this fall.

    We are considering asking those students who have access to a piano at home to not use the practice rooms, and to assign two to four students to each practice room. That way, if one of them contracts COVID-19, we can contact trace (at least as far as shared practice room pianos are concerned).

    We are also looking at the possibility of having "Hallway Monitors," individuals who hang out in the hallways where the practice rooms are. The idea is that when a student leaves a practice room, a monitor will swoop in and clean the piano keys before the next user gets started. The concern here is that wiping off the keys several times a day with alcohol, bleach or what-have-you could damage the keytop material.

    I know of a couple of gigging pianists (playing weddings and bar mitzvahs, not concerts per se) who are wearing gloves...

    As part of our mitigation efforts, in collaboration with the offices of Student Experience and Communications, I am designing a shirt with a uniquely CalArts slant about physical distancing (see attached). We are in the process of adding elements about wearing masks and washing hands as well, thereby going for the "COVID trifecta." A creative response to an otherwise shitty situation. (Bear in mind that CalArts was founded by Walt Disney, who started his illustrious career with Mickey Mouse.)

    Like Paul, I am eager to read about what others are doing at their schools.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 4.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-14-2020 07:41
    Alan,

    Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, that should be three days without cleaning. At least that is our understanding this week ;)

    Before I was a piano tech I was a firefighter and I recall that the AIDS virus is dead as soon as it hits air, but the Hepatitis C virus can live in a drop of blood on a hard surface for
    2-3 weeks. Disclaimer: My last blood born pathogen class was more than 10 years ago so my memory may be slipping…

    I am concerned for the long term effects on the keytops and other piano surfaces. As much as I would like the steady supply of shop work from putting new keytops on 70+ pianos
    would rather help the school avoid that! I like the idea of assigning practice rooms to a certain group of students. This also makes me think that the students might be more motivated
    to better their hygiene if they are a part of a smaller known group.

    We will all learn a lot this fall, that is certain.




  • 5.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-14-2020 08:48
    Hi Paul,

    From what I understand, the wand won't be enough unless you have loads of time to literally stand there and hover the thing for 30 seconds to one minute. At intensity levels that are safe for humans, with a two inch width, it's going to take forever. For a better understanding of this method, I consulted with a professor from our engineering school, so I feel confident that it is not going to be the wonder tool that I wanted it to be. We are considering this option as a supplemental only, and only for the case parts. For keys we are using 70% rubbing alcohol (apparently that water is essential to loosen up the germs and kill the virus, much like water with soap - better than 91%).

    Our community will also be using disinfectant wipes, followed by a dry-off pass. There will be instructions posted everywhere, in concert with a commitment (in writing, as I understand it) for all students to follow COVID-19 hand-washing and mask-wearing protocols. We had already posted an instructional video on key-cleaning for our students back in March. We have advised our administrators that fogging will not be allowed in rooms with pianos.

    For case parts we are preparing to enter an experimental phase, more to come there...suffice it to say it won't be pretty, but it has to be included in the disinfecting, and we are trying to protect finishes as well. And don't forget those adjustable bench knobs!

    Annie Hayden
    University of Southern California





  • 6.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-14-2020 09:51
    My dentist is fogging the treatment areas with hypochlorous acid.
    I don't know about its use on pianos, but information can be found here: https://www.hypochlorousacid.com
    Especially see the FAQ page.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 11:03
    Paul et al:

    Thanks you for the above additional cleaning tactics.  Also, thanks to Alan for the creative t-shirt!!

    In addition to the contact remedies above there needs to be policy in place as well.  I am hoping that this comes up in your Zoom meeting along with other subjects.  I am also hoping that it is not up to the technician to establish school policy alone.  We at the U of Oregon have shut down for the entirety of the spring term not unlike most other institutions.  There are few if any students on the campus, hardly any faculty, and enough staff to keep the place running.  Many in the food service and dorms are now gone.  Even the vending machines are empty.  The U of O has provided daily updates on policy and procedures since March.  You can find samples here:  https://www.uoregon.edu/coronavirus

    Our Covid task force had instituted severe policies regarding the use of the music building which were altered to allow use of practice rooms and class rooms for practice under certain circumstances.  Basically, the GTF students can use a practice room for two hours per day which is spread out among participants so that the building is not "fully" occupied.  There is also the policy of one student to one practice room only for those two hours.  No one is to switch or alter their respective schedules.  The undergrads have little to no access to the building.  No students are allowed over the weekends.  This coming week there will be no access for any students at any time.  Finals are over and we are in the week before graduation which is this weekend.  I am planning to get much done this coming week when the building and all things in it are "resting" from the virus.  We should be clear by Monday or Tuesday assuming the three day rule.  

    Next week anyone in any building will be required to have a mask on.  Period.  No exceptions.  Anyone coming into my shop space must have washed and will be wearing a mask.  No exceptions for this either.  

    I am appalled at the lax nature of the students currently roaming the halls who are not wearing masks.  Really disappointed.  The above new policy will prevent such from happening especially when we are helping to encourage the use of masks.  



    Mike

    ------------------------------
    Michael Reiter
    Eugene OR
    541-515-6499
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 11:37
    Loud vocalizations in enclosed spaces are the best way to spread airborne viruses. So much as I hate to say it, singing should not be allowed in the music school until we get a vaccine or herd immunity. 

    I wonder if banning touching of all but the music desk, fallboard, bench and keys would help reduce the number of surfaces to clean. 

    If there are monitors, it would be helpful to have them equipped with infrared thermometers to verify no one has a temperature.

    And Alan, cool T-shirt. Who came up with it? One can even simng the Mouseketeers tune to : C A L, A R T, S, C, A, RSE, S. You have to say the A, R, SE, S in a; A=1/8th note, RSE= 1/8th note triplet, and S=1/8th note. Now I am a singing "ARSES".

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 11:48
    Glad you like the shirt, Ed. My concept (based on common "distancing" signage), realize with the the aid of a graphic designer and an artist. What's your shirt size?

    You mentioned banning the touching of all but certain case parts. As I am about to ask Mike Reiter, how will policies such as this be enforced? I am not at all satisfied with the answers I have heard at CalArts thus far, and hope to steer that conversation in the direction of as much personal accountability as is allowed by law.  

    Alan


    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 11:55
    Mike,

    You wrote:
    "I am appalled at the lax nature of the students currently roaming the halls who are not wearing masks.  Really disappointed.  The above new policy will prevent such from happening especially when we are helping to encourage the use of masks."

    Same question I just put to Ed McM. How to enforce such policies? Lax behavior on the part of others in the same environment is a major concern of mine. But what could the consequences be? 
    After 36 years, I may be out of a job come September, depending on how many students show up. The administration will be more far more reluctant than usual to discipline, suspend or expel any of the limited number that do enroll. I get that. But I also take survival very seriously.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 11:50
    I am not a CAUT guy but I think, in the situation of practice rooms and teaching studios, the administration should be notified that keytops, and to a certain extent non polyester finishes, should be considered "quickly depreciable" aspects of pianos in the COVID era. The more aggressive the cleaning regimen, the more likely keytops will degrade more rapidly than the past. I'm sticking with KeyBrite for in-home service. Perhaps a Clorox wipe if I'm really concerned, followed by KeyBrite. Mario has a mix of Fantastic & some other stuff (alcohol + ?), it's in a thread that Israel Stein started about 5-6 weeks ago).

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Draine
    Billerica MA
    978-663-9690
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Member
    Posted 06-14-2020 12:55
    Hi Paul,

    Stanford has a specific team responsible for designating protocols for reopening university-wide, with specific recommendations for each department. Ultimately they will make the decision regarding practice room use, but are not familiar with the needs or function of the department.

    Below are suggestions regarding practice room use and piano care that I submitted to my dept. My hope is that practice rooms will be available for use, but it is a tough sell - they are basically Petri dishes.  We have a small department, about 25 practice rooms, half of these are Wegman pods.  I expect to spend my time next year disinfecting surfaces rather than tuning for concerts.  

    Practice Rooms
    • Recommend students are assigned a practice room of their choice for the quarter, and reserve specific time periods for use. This will force students to be efficient in their time, and discourage hanging out. Having assigned rooms will help immensely if contact tracing is requested. Perhaps schedule an empty time slot between reservations to allow time for the air to settle.  
    • Perhaps some of 206 practice rooms could be individually keyed.
    • Consider the possibility of leaving fans running continuously?
    •  Covering the fan switch with a safety lock of some sort?
    Disinfecting Shared-Use Pianos
    • Recommend  a thorough cleaning of all shared use pianos at the beginning of each day.  I was doing this prior to the shutdown (also cleaning light switches and door handles of practice rooms). I have a cleaning solution which is part degreaser (Fantastic) and isopropyl alcohol.  Disposable paper towels are more efficient than rewashable cloths.  A thorough daily cleaning removes the grime buildup from fingers. Takes about 5 minutes per piano.
    • As we were doing prior to shutdown, post notes requesting students to wash hands before and after piano use.  Also include a note about no food or drinks.
    • Consider recommending the use of masks for students strictly using keyboards (although the level of physical exertion is similar to low or moderate level aerobic exercise, like riding a bike).
    • Alcohol based cleaners are safe for plastic keys and most finishes, and should be okay for ivory keys.  Hydrogen peroxide cleaners are also acceptable.  Alcohol is a more potent disinfectant than hydrogen peroxide.  Most practice room piano cases are already quite damaged, so there is little concern about continued damage due to overly aggressive cleaning!
    • Bleach, ammonia, or citric acid based cleaners should be avoided.
    • Best case scenario is having alcohol based wipes in every shared room.  2nd choice is H2O2 wipes.  3rd choice is spray bottles with paper towels or disposable pads.
    • Recommend small waste baskets and small plastic or metal tables for placing personal items in each practice room.
    • I am uncertain about the health safety or efficiency of personal use UV wands, and wouldn't recommend making them available for student use.  It is possible that some students will have their own wands.  I wouldn't even suggest that we recommend students purchase their own wands.  There just isn't enough data on these things.  Here are my best google searches on it, which are hardly definitive: 
    • https://www.digitaltrends.com/health-fitness/should-you-buy-uv-sanitizing-wand/
    • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2855944/
    • It is inevitable that some students will use their own hand sanitizer products, Lysol wipes, or UV wands on the pianos.  A limited amount of this will not cause extensive damage.  
    • Not this year, but in the future, we might consider proactively replacing ivory keytops with plastic keytops on practice room pianos.  Ivory is hygroscopic and absorbs a fair amount of sweat and dirt, and is more difficult to clean.
    • Here is a link to the Piano Technician Guild's recommendation for disinfecting pianos.

    Stanford campus is still entirely shut down since March 10.  In July, we will open up enough to allow 2 people in the building at a time with a reservation.

    At this point the plan is to have a 4 quarter system, with freshman only on campus 1st quarter, then Sophomores and Juniors, with seniors only last quarter.  This will allow for single room dorm use.  The rest of the year will be at home online.  

    The Music Dept. is gearing up for AV syncing in adjacent classrooms to limit personal contact.

    It's going to be a wild ride.  We're all just throwing darts in the dark.

    Hope this helps,

    Jewel






  • 13.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 15:58

    Hi all,

    Your inputs are great info for my zoom with the piano faculty tomorrow morning. Keep em coming.

     

    Our cleaning facilities are working overtime with sanitizing carpets, door handles, light switches and all, and told them not to do the pianos. 

     

    My "wand" can clean a keyboard and music desk in less than 10 minutes, but there's a 120 pianos, so I can't be expected to do them all.

     

    The other cleaning solvents you suggest sound good. I'm only concerned with doing this all the time on all pianos. I think the solvents will damage the keys, etc with so much cleaning every day several times..

     

    I like the hall monitor with forehead temperature "gun"  idea to assure each student has washed hands before entering a practice room. I hope we can hire such a person.  I'm not able to order new major parts like hammers, etc. unless we have a major action failure, so stuck with using what we have, so budget is a huge deal.

     

    My meeting is 11am Monday, so please keep it up.  You're a great help.

     

    Paul

     

     

     

     






  • 14.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 11:56

    Another question.

     

    How do you all propose sanitizing the cabinets, music desks, etc.?  I've heard 10 different ways to sanitize the keytops, but not the rest of the piano.

     

    Anyone know where we can find information on this?

     

    Thanks

    Paul

     






  • 15.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-15-2020 12:16
    I've read reviews and seen Youtube videos on the purple light wands being sold.

    Here are some of the comments:

    There are no true UVC lights coming out of China.
    >>
    Not fake, but these cheap LED outputs such low UVC that they are next to useless. It is dangerous when it gives users a false sense of security that the items were sterilised when in actual fact it is not.
    >>
    <ytd-expander id="expander" max-number-of-lines="4" class="expander-exp style-scope ytd-comment-renderer" collapsed="" should-use-number-of-lines="">
    <yt-formatted-string id="content-text" slot="content" split-lines="" class="style-scope ytd-comment-renderer">This isn't UVC light it's UVA. UVC has more ice blue color and UVA (black light) has purpleish light.
    >>
    <ytd-comment-thread-renderer class="style-scope ytd-item-section-renderer"><ytd-comment-renderer id="comment" class="style-scope ytd-comment-thread-renderer" comment-style="unknown">
    <ytd-expander id="expander" max-number-of-lines="4" class="expander-exp style-scope ytd-comment-renderer" should-use-number-of-lines="">
    <yt-formatted-string id="content-text" slot="content" split-lines="" class="style-scope ytd-comment-renderer">The information here is incorrect. The light emitted from that wand is not true UVC. It is on a higher wavelength which gives it a purple color as black lights. It may have a range of UVC but it is not optimal to kill pathogens. True UVC bulbs have a ice blue color to the light, which is not that visible to the naked eye. One of the ways if knowing if your UVC bulb is real is if it emits a burned electronic smell after ;eaving it on in an enclose box. It produces Ozone by having the light react to the oxygen in the air which also kills pathogens.

    >>>>>>>>>

    I bought this wand for about $70 from Amazon....it turns out from the review that
    it is probably mostly totally worthless and not a true UV light. Also, if it were a true
    UV light there are serious dangers to skin, eyes and lungs!

    https://youtu.be/yqiVhtsMGWo

    caveat emptor

    R</yt-formatted-string>
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    ------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-18-2020 22:40
    Apologies in advance for this long post...

    After reading all the comments about sanitizing the pianos for university use, I am concerned that we are focusing on the wrong thing.  I don't  mean to be critical of or blame anyone here for being concerned about disinfecting pianos; these edicts seem to be coming from the university administrators and society at large.  This mania and obsession of cleaning and disinfecting surfaces constantly is rampant in our culture, to the detriment of paying attention to what really matters:  transmission of the virus through the air for others to breathe.  Washing everything constantly and obsessing over it might make us feel better temporarily, but it can also give us a false sense of security and lead to laxness in doing what really matters:  staying home if you're ill, wearing a mask in public, washing your hands, not touching your face, and keeping your distance from other people.

    Check out any reputable, science-based article by entering "COVID-19 spread by contaminated surfaces" or something similar in your search engine, and you will find many reports acknowledging that it is in theory possible to contract the virus from surfaces, but extremely unlikely if you follow good hygiene rules.  Most will say outright that surface contamination is not thought to be of concern in transmission of the virus.  The virus degrades fairly quickly outside of an animal host, so although a DNA footprint might be detectable a few hours later, that does not mean it's infectious.  Also, and most important, it still has to get into your body.  How's it gonna do that if you're conscientious about washing your hands thoroughly and often and not touching your face?  Make it a habit, if you haven't already done so, to wash hands frequently, and most certainly after you've been out in public, touching items in the grocery store, for example.  On a personal note, today I was at my local hospital for a routine procedure that had already been postponed too long.  I mentioned to my nurse this idea of fixating on cleaning surfaces constantly vs. paying attention to aerial transmission, and she confirmed what I'm telling you here.  Pay attention to the air rather than the surfaces.

    This virus is transmitted through the air when you stand too close to an infected person for more than a minute or two.  Please, let's not forget this important point.  Masks do help, especially if everyone in a public setting is wearing one.  Keeping your distance is also extremely important, as droplets and aerosolized particles generally drop to the ground in a 6 or 7 foot radius.  Equally important is that the amount of virus one is exposed to appears to be key in how ill one might become or how fatal the illness is.  (This sad fact explains why relatively young, healthy medical workers have died from the virus.)  You can breathe in lots more virus in a relatively short time than somehow ingesting lots of viable particles from a surface.

    I am not knowledgable about HVAC systems in a typical public building or university, and I suspect very few piano technicians are.  Have any of us asked our supervisors or university administrators just what they're doing about the air system?  Are there HEPA filters in place and are they replaced frequently enough?  Does the HVAC system malfunction frequently?  (As was the case at SFSU...)  If your workplace can't assure you that they have done their part to control and clean the air supply, all this obsession about cleaning surfaces won't help make us safer.  Is your workplace making it easy for people to wash their hands thoroughly and often?  How about installing portable wash-up stations outside the building entrances?  (Usually can't put them indoors in the hallways because of fire safety/evacuation codes...Apologies in advance to the custodial staff for the extra trouble this would create!)  A small local grocery store in my area (yay Tokyo Fish of Berkeley!) has installed a jug of water with a spigot outside the entrance, with liquid soap and paper towels also supplied.  I use it every time, as do many other shoppers.  This is a gentle but effective reminder on the importance of hand hygiene.  Brilliant.

    Soap and water, properly employed, are still the best way to stop the transmission from your hands into your body.  They beat the snot (literally, tee hee!) out of either alcohol wipes, hydrogen peroxide or any other fancy-schmancy chemical disinfectant.  I'm retired now, but If I were commanded to disinfect pianos, soap and water, used carefully and sparingly, would be my first and only choice in cleaning piano surfaces.

    I read two comments on this thread that touched on the above issues of air transmission and masks.  Ed McMorrow mentioned that singers should not be allowed to practice in the music building.  Right on target, as the unfortunate experience of a church choir rehearsal  in Washington State in March(?) demonstrated.  Many participants became ill, resulting in a few deaths, unfortunately.  Or consider the diners at a restaurant in China who were sitting at adjoining tables to an infected person, with a fan or the air system suspected of facilitating the spread of the infection.  Mike Reiter mentioned seeing students in the music building who don't wear masks.  This is a problem that also needs to be addressed by the university administrators.  Here we have an uphill cultural battle on our hands, as Americans don't like to be commanded to do things that are perceived as limiting our freedoms.  (Work with us here as we're trying to save your life and mine!)  Any mask is better than none, until a reliable supply of N-95 masks are available to the general public.  So far America has been slow to learn from other countries and implement proven regimens to contain the spread of the virus until an effective treatment or a vaccine becomes available.  These regimens include:  strong messaging encouraging hand hygiene, requiring citizens to wear a good mask when in public, keeping your distance, tracing contacts, and isolating infected individuals, typically at hotels which are all but abandoned due to the crash of the tourist industry.  Other countries have employed some or all of these techniques with great success in controlling transmission.  America lags way behind, due to a failure of imagination to prepare for a pandemic, plus chaotic, unscientific, inconsistent, and contradictory messages issued from our leaders (and one in particular) that do more harm than good.

    What's contagious here is the panic and fear that this national obsession with washing everything constantly has caused.  I know of someone who has stopped ordering fresh produce to be delivered, even if it needs to be cooked before being consumed.  I have other friends who let the mail sit for a day or two and are constantly obsessing about washing every item that comes into the household.  To be fair, both of these households are also sheltering in place and being extremely cautious when they do have to go out.  I guess they're covering all the possibilities.

    One of the more problematic things to control during this pandemic is what to do about public bathrooms.  Again, we should be less concerned about surfaces and more worried about the air system in that small enclosed space and also, unfortunately, what happens when you flush the toilet.  It has been known for some time that viral and bacterial particles of all varieties get hurled into the air in aerosolized form, especially from the types of toilets that are typically found in public bathrooms.  They're pretty violent and enthusiastic in the amount of water thrown about, compared to the average home toilet.  Best recommendation now is to have that mask on when in a public bathroom.

    I'm weary of this pandemic.  You're weary of this pandemic.  This has all been one giant cluster#%&*.  But please, let's not beat up on the pianos, ruining keytops and lacquer finishes in a misguided attempt to sanitize everything in sight.  Let's encourage (or require!) individual responsibility for hand cleanliness, mask wearing, and observing the magical 6 foot zone.  The plans to limit access to practice rooms are excellent.  And for goodness sake, find out about the HVAC systems and HEPA filters!

    With sincere wishes for everyone's good health,
    Margie Williams
    Richmond CA
    San Francisco Chapter








  • 17.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-18-2020 23:06
    Thank you Ms. Williams.
    I wholly support everything you have written. Mask wearing, hand  hygiene and social distance will do more to prevent the spread of this disease than all of the UVC bathed clorox wipes in the world. While N95 masks are going to continue to be in short supply for a long time there is a good supply of KN95 masks and they are more than good enough to contain our own exhalations. It's important to remember that we wear the mask to protect others more than to protect ourselves. The countries that have done a good job of containing the spread of the disease are the ones that have widely accepted this simple measure as a social obligation.

    ------------------------------
    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-19-2020 01:03
    Hello group,

    It occurred to me that university technicians going back to work during the pandemic may want to be prepared for another unfortunate scenario:  pianists bringing their own concoctions to clean the keys and surrounding case parts.  This could cause serious damage.  Signage is usually not real effective, as most of us have learned.  Perhaps a way to convey all the rules about practice room usage during these trying times could be handled in a Zoom meeting, or some other "face to face" real time interaction where you could explain the policies and answer questions.

    I'll say it again:  I don't envy you, my dear colleagues, for having to work in this public setting. Good luck.

    Margie





  • 19.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-18-2020 23:39
    Thank you Margie, SO WELL SAID!

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 07:46

    Great post.

     

    We are discussing many of the points you brought up; HVAC, more washing stations, assigning students to a particular practice room, mandatory hand washing, mask wearing and distancing, hiring student hall monitors to make sure these important steps are enforced. I think I have convinced the higher ups that alcohol and pianos are not compatible, especially several times a day, and if we need to clean keys, hydrogen peroxide wipes are the best bet. Both Steinway and Yamaha are suggesting this as well.

     

    Stay well,

    Paul






  • 21.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 09:13
    Paul,

    We are all struggling with the same issues. As mentioned before, one of my greatest concerns is enforcement of best practices. When you wrote:

    "...hiring student hall monitors to make sure these important steps are enforced..."

    would that take the form of reminding people of what they should be doing? Or actually "enforcing" the rules (which means that there have to be some negative consequences for breaking the rules)?

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 09:21

    We have a task force of those on a higher pay grade than I going over all of this.  I would think there would be some sort of consequences like losing your practice time that day, but not sure how many details have been worked out yet.






  • 23.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-19-2020 08:02
    Teachers will be at high risk, spending hours in small teaching studios with young students who are high-risk asymptomatic carriers. [I once had to wipe off a piano after a saxophone recital. Yuk!] Perhaps lessons could be moved to recital halls and auditoriums. There won't be any chorus rehearsals or performances.

    Frankly, I don't see a safe way to run a full music department at this time.

    Perhaps this is the year that music majors can get done with math, English, language, and history requirements.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-19-2020 09:33
    Hi Margie,

    I am sold on the sensibility of your argument. As I read it, I actually felt relieved, imagining less labor and staff redeployments to keep up with the cleanings (not just the pianos). For the immediate future, i.e. "Restart", I think visible evidence of active efforts (wiping, etc.) on the part of the school may soothe nerves; however, the sustainability question looms. We have been warned repeatedly of the possibility of staff reduction, for example.

    In any case, I am happy to know that our leaders have already begun to re-configure the class schedule to allow for air-handling/HVAC to play a part. The HEPA/ongoing maintenance is a huge part of that. And the novelty of a water jug with spigot as a "gentle reminder" could also play a positive psychological role as the days drag on.

    Thanks for posting!





  • 25.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 16:43
    Margie

    Thanks for a well thought out post and it gets us thinking about how to accommodate our various activities in a safe manner.  If possible.  

    David, many thanks for the article.  It was informative and seems to be well researched.  

    As for our own situation here at U of O, we are, at this writing, planning to have in person classes in the fall.  Conditions will be quite different than in the past as we can all well imagine.  In our older building here I can't speak to the HVAC system but I can speak to other areas that are being changed.  

    1.  All on the campus are to wear a mask--no exceptions.  If you are working alone in your office you can remove your mask while alone.  (I am feeling somewhat empowered with this one as I can now say to someone in the hall--"Dude where is your mask"!!)
    2.  With great complication class sizes are being limited to about 1/2 their normal size to align with spacing requirements
    3.  Performances are planned but there is that 6 foot limit for seating.  We are recognizing a 36 square foot perimeter around each attendee.  
    4.  Orchestra will likely be broken up into smaller chamber groups to accommodate the spacing.
    5.  Also with great complications class times are being altered to staggered times.  The hallways will then be less populated during class changes.  You can't believe the burden this has put on the staffing that does the scheduling--hats off to them for their continuing efforts.  
    6.  Practice rooms are currently scheduled as one student to one room with time limits during the day.  No access over the weekends.  

    As for #6 above I may change some of my schedule to the weekends for service as this will give some time for the practice rooms/office spaces to rest and reduce the chance of surface contamination.  

    Of course all of the above may change between now and the start of school.  We are fortunate that our classes don't start until late Sept-early Oct so will give us a chance to see how others are doing.  

    Also, kudos to the Covid task force in their efforts to keep is informed on a daily basis and doing their best to keep us out of harm's way


    Mike Reiter​​

    ------------------------------
    Michael Reiter
    Eugene OR
    541-515-6499
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 17:11
    Mike, you wrote:
    "3.  Performances are planned but there is that 6 foot limit for seating.  We are recognizing a 36 square foot perimeter around each attendee."

    Math is not exactly my strong suit, but wouldn't proper physical distancing involve having six feet in all directions around each individual (so they would be in the center of a circle that is 14' in diameter, six feet in all directions PLUS two feet from one of their shoulders to the other?). Thirty-six square feet seems like it would only be three feet in each direction, and that would be from their spine to the spine of the next person, yielding less than three feet form the shoulder of one to the shoulder of another. Or am I missing something here?

    Best,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 21:20
    Alan

    Well, it basically means every other row and two seats between each person.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 21:55
    Alan
    If you have 2 areas of 36 sq ft each, with a person in the center of each, then person A has 3 ft in any direction to get to person B's box, but another 3 ft to get to person B located in the center of their box. 
    Clear as mud?  ��

    Debbie Cyr
    Registered Piano Technician 
    508-202-2862 cell


    Sent from my iPhone





  • 29.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-20-2020 07:01
    Debbie,

    I see the error in my thinking and stand corrected. Thanks for setting me straight!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-19-2020 17:20
    Thank you, Ann and everybody for your kind words.  I almost didn't post, wondering if I had missed something that all of you know.  (Also didn't want to see unkind words, but our group is usually pretty cordial...)

    I am gratified to know that the air systems have not been forgotten.

    The question is, do any of you feel brave enough to try to gently re-direct the attention of the administration at your school so that they stop focusing so much on surfaces?  How are you going to be able to complete your core mission of taking care of the pianos if most of your time is spent needlessly cleaning them?  I would also be careful about off-loading the job of cleaning keys and case parts to students or other workers.  It's not as easy as it might seem to not only do a good job, but to not damage the piano as well-thinking of any spray products that get on the strings or spilled inside the piano.  Remind them (kindly) that you are the specialist on pianos, and part of your job is to worry about the pianos so that they don't have to.

    Although this is the worst pandemic situation any of us have been exposed to, I don't recall any concern for surfaces with other recent viral infestations.  (SARS, MERS, H1N1, Ebola and others.)  It's true we dodged a bullet on all of those, but they were all very concerning, and had the epidemiologists terrified and lying awake at night. 

    You're exactly right, Ann, that all this busy work with surfaces makes people feel better.  I have no problem with all the grocery stores (at least in our area) who also are obsessively cleaning everything in sight; whatever makes the employees comfortable, I'm OK with that.  I have great admiration for all the brave food workers, who don't get paid all that well and have to put up with a cranky and frustrated public.  I thank the Goddess every day for the field workers who harvest food and feed our nation.  That is a terrible, back-breaking job at best. However, wiping down grocery store shelves and assaulting a piano with frequent cleanings are two separate things.

    Somehow, this factoid about the virus living on surfaces has gained control of the world of things and surfaces.  This is a useless fact that has been released into the wild, often presented without context.  People seem to miss the sentence following the eye-grabbing headline of viral viability on surfaces which states that it still has to find its way into the body.

    Although we're bucking a strong cultural belief here, I'm hoping that most administrators can be convinced of the futility and wasted effort on all these surfaces.  They're educated, hopefully believe in science and facts, and maybe can be talked away from the ledge, at least in regard to pianos.  I know at SFSU that our custodial staff was quite good, usually, but I do remember seeing totally grody door handles that could do with a deep cleaning, and this was pre-pandemic days.  I also spent time cleaning piano keys-when they showed visual signs of gradoo or felt yucky to my touch.  Our job is all about details, and how the keys look and feel to pianists is important.  I also cleaned plenty of case parts that had years of grubby, sweaty hands touching them.  And piano benches with butt and leg imprints on them.

    I was protected as a union member at SFSU, but I also would have felt comfortable talking to my direct supervisor, and others up the chain, union membership or not.  These people were all reasonable people, whom I liked and had a good rapport with.  It all depends on how comfortable all of you are, discussing this topic with your supervisors.  There are plenty of online reports on this topic which you could direct them to, and a careful, complete reading would support any decisions they make regarding easing up on the surfaces.

    Changing the behavior of young people may be difficult-at the ages of 18 and 19, they are all still pretty feral.  But they're also young enough to learn new habits, like good hand hygiene and how to wear a mask properly.  As other staff members and I used to say to each other at SFSU, "Who raised these people?!?"  Turns out, we have to, at least in part.  (I don't mean to be totally unkind to young people.  Occasionally I would find a student mopping up spilled coffee in the hallway.  I always thanked him or her, and asked that the parents be thanked as well for raising a thoughtful, mature child...)

    Margie





  • 31.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-19-2020 14:45
    That's spot on Margie.  This article may be helpful.

    https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR0TNZyVxNyDq7RuecsKZnAjdGaIrEvtf6rm37WOzDelhCqSaantzNZigyU

    The biggest risk is probably the small practice rooms since many of them do not have adequate ventilation and there's no guarantee about how recently they will have been occupied before you go into them or how they have been used. 

    Some schools are better than others in terms of insuring safety of all parties and some are more or less reliant on students self-monitoring their behavior (I don't know about you but 18 and 19 year-olds are not always that reliable).  

    The focus on surfaces at the expense of mask wearing for all parties and good ventilation prior to arrival would be a mistake.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-20-2020 09:05

    I guess at this point it's pretty clear there is a lot of conflicting information out there as to the efficacy and practicality of using UV-C light for disinfecting a piano keyboard.
    I myself have been using a UV wand for 3 months on the basis that exposure for 5 seconds is adequate to disinfect a given hard surface. This recommendation requires roughly 4 minutes of my time to disinfect the keys. A scientist yesterday publicly stated that UV-C light, properly applied, will disable the virus in as little as 3 seconds. 

    Opinions are easy for form. Facts are a rarer commodity. I don't yet know all the facts with regard to the use of UV-C. I suggest it will be prudent for all of us to look for a more authoritative discussion to take place among experts in the coming months before completely embracing or rejecting this concept. 

    I think we can all agree that if it works, ultra violet C light will be a valuable tool In our effort to keep everyone safe. 



    ------------------------------
    Paul Rattigan
    Senior Concert Technician
    Harvard University
    Cambridge, Massachusetts
    781 659-4681
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Member
    Posted 06-20-2020 11:14
    Hi All,

    One important thing that I have not seen discussed here is testing.  I personally would feel a great deal safer if individuals that are sharing a space with me have been tested recently for the virus.  Of course, this entirely depends on the availability of testing in your area.  We are fortunate in Los Angeles, that you can get a test for free even if you show no symptoms.  Doing regular temperature checks on site would be helpful but considering the virus can be transmitted when the host shows no symptoms, this is not fool proof.  But of course none of what we are discussing is fool proof.  Tests that are available take days to give results.  You can still contract the virus between the getting the test and getting the result.  Which is why I think it is important to adhere to all the social distancing, mask wearing, and hand washing protocols in addition to getting tested regularly-assuming a regular test can even be implemented.

    I read a story recently about a 15 second breathalyzer-style test in the works.  That is encouraging, but I won't hold my breath.  I'm still waiting for the 15-minute test to become available that supposedly came out a couple months ago.  Either of those tests would be a huge benefit to re-opening.

    Thanks for all the great discussion, everyone!

    ------------------------------
    Luke Taylor
    Temple City CA
    310-386-7014
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-20-2020 11:33
    Dr. Taylor,

    How right you are about testing. At your alma mater there is talk of implementing a testing regimen for everyone frequenting the building on a regular basis, and temperature tests for all, in order to gain entry to the building ("All of the arts, under one roof").

    Yes, a fifteen second turn around time would be of enormous value, not only in the interest of being up-to-the-minute with the status of regulars, but also to have a basis for whether or not to allow entry to one-offers, such as pano movers (I don't know about you, but it will be a long time before I get in an elevator again), contractors, guests, etc.

    Have I got a shirt for you, big guy! What's your size?

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-20-2020 12:36

    Everyone who enters the School of Music must show proof of being tested with a negative result, or their card is shut off until they do. Unlike most of South Carolina, masks MUST be worn in the building with all that goes with it.  Not so at stores, gas stations etc. I see about 50% masks and 6' distancing Is getting shorter and shorter.  Sad.

     

     






  • 36.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-20-2020 21:37
    Attached is an old (and still relevant) paper that details the problems with insufficient HVAC systems. I used this paper to help bolster my argument for a proper HVAC system when Ithaca College expanded the music building. The chart at the end of the paper might be worth presenting to your administrator. I have also attached a better looking upgrade of the chart. The music building ended up with a better system but not good enough due to "value engineering." In other words, they cut the budget for a cheaper system. All too frequently it is all about the dollars and not about the health of the building occupants. I doubt many administrators are looking to upgrade HVAC systems and in these dangerous times, more's the pity.

    ------------------------------
    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Humidity&Illness.pdf   412 KB 1 version


  • 37.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-21-2020 09:15
    Thanks for the chart Donald M.  Would you mind elaborating on or interpreting the meaning of the chart?  I think I know what it represents but would like clarification.  Thanks.
    Gary Bruce
    Registered Piano Technician
    (405) 413-TUNE





  • 38.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-21-2020 10:06
    I no longer have my 20 Year Journal CD. There is buried in there an article in the PTJ concerning hvac systems highlighting the importance and savings of controlling humidity as well as temperature.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-21-2020 10:45
    Gary,

    The numbers at the top of the chart represent relative humidity. As you can see, the chances of contracting bugs, etc. are greatly reduced when RH is kept at the mid-range. I was presenting to the school the need for proper humidity control to maintain the health of the pianos and I used the paper and chart to show an ancillary benefit. Now, I would definitely place a higher priority of a proper HVAC system as it is critical for the health of all occupants in the building.

    ------------------------------
    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-22-2020 13:22
    I spent some time talking to our lead HVAC person today. I asked him about Covid strategies while pointing out that our building still has a large positive pressure (doors blown open when opened). I believe that infectious disease areas of hospitals are designed for negative pressures to prevent infections from circulating throughout the hospital. Seems like our building should have negative pressure too with more air leaving than entering (but what do I know?!). He said that everything he has read says that they should aim for positive pressures in campus buildings but mentioned that the science building was designed for neutral pressure. It is a moot point for our music building because the equipment is ancient and obsolete, to say nothing about the budget crises and concomitant hiring and spending freeze.

    So which is it? Positive or negative pressure for campus buildings to decrease viral spread and enhance safety during a pandemic?

    Alan McCoy
    (509) 999-9512





  • 41.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-22-2020 14:26
    Hi, all,

    This is completely outside my area of knowledge. But wouldn’t different facilities require positive or negative pressure depending on what they’re doing? If you have a bio-lab working with Ebola and smallpox, I would assumer negative pressure so any air movement doesn’t inadvertently let critters out.

    And in some super-sensitive facilities working on things like Mars explorers and space telescopes, they are so aware of tiny dust particles that I think they use positive pressure, so opening doors won’t let in dust and so on.

    I’m not sure, off the top of my head, whether we would consider positive or negative pressure in a building to more helpful. I’m curious to see what other might say. Our buildings at CSU Long Beach had pretty positive pressure, for what that’s worth. I don’t recall any schools I’ve gone into that seemed to have negative pressure, or how that would be created.

    Kathy




  • 42.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Posted 06-22-2020 14:38
    Kathy,
    I think you are probably correct about different buildings requiring different pressures. I also suspect that retrofit of buildings for achieving a particular pressure is not easy - read, expensive, requiring a balance of fan size and capacity as well as corresponding duct sizes and lengths.


    Alan McCoy
    (509) 999-9512





  • 43.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-22-2020 15:16
    I think it's more a question of balancing pressure within a building. If there is a reason you want one space not to propagate what is in it to the rest of the building, it should be relatively negative. The building itself should probably be positive relative to outside so as to minimize change of temp from sucking in outside air when doors and windows are opened.

    Our building (well, not mine anymore) has a lot of variance of pressure within it, with the recital hall being negative. This leads to slamming doors and a lot of whistling and humming noise as air tries to move through the gaps in the doorways. That is just a wee bit troublesome when doing recording :-)

    For health purposes, there is a general standard for what percentage of "fresh" outside air is to be mixed into the air circulating within the building (probably a range of percentage). There are also standards for how often the air within each room is to be completely replaced, though this doesn't really mean what it says. A room will always have some stagnant corners, so the fact that an air volume equal to the size of the room moves into/moves out of the room every 15 minutes doesn't mean that the air is entirely replaced. It depends on the placement of the in and out ducts.

    There are filtration elements to every HVAC system, which will catch some things, but I doubt they would be fine enough to stop viral particles. I guess that's possible in hyper-refined systems like those for labs, but unlikely for a large public building.

    What could be done to improve matters with respect to viral spread? Probably increase volume of air movement (speed up the fans), increase percentage of outside air mixed in, and change filters regularly would be the most likely options. That would, of course, play havoc with tuning.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." Brecht






  • 44.  RE: Re-entering university settings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-22-2020 16:16
    Here is an article that explains why hospitals need to use negative air pressure rooms:
    https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/covid-19-forced-hospitals-build-negative-pressure-rooms-fast

    Simply put, you would not want negative pressure in a regular building as it will hold Covid, etc. in the building. Hospitals need negative pressure rooms to help contain the spread.

    ------------------------------
    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------