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A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

  • 1.  A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-13-2022 18:27

    Frank Illenberger, a German engineer, has created a new, very advanced tuning app <www.pianoscope.app> which, among the usual functions of a state-of-the-art tuning app, includes two special functions.

    • Rapid sampling of partials from A0 to C7, about one second for each note, less than 2 minutes for the piano and creation of tunings of choice for the piano.
    • Newly Added: Ability to play back a synthesized version of each note, matching the sampled strings, adjusted for the desired tuning.

     Put this together and you have

    • Ability to tune by aural matching of piano strings to the synthesized tone – a tuning method that maintains aural attention to the piano throughout the process, which can include calculated overpull for pitch adjustment. Just tune the string as a unison to the synthesised sound.
    • Tuning tutorials in which the synthesized tone provides a "master demonstration" which the student then copies. Examples below.

    Tutorial 1: Assume A3 is tuned and checked by visual display.

             Play (synthesized F3)-(piano A3), listening to the sound of the interval.

             Tune (piano F3-A3), duplicating the sound of the "master" interval.

             Check the tuning in visual mode.

             Using synthesized D4, play A3-D4, F3-A3, F3-D4.

             Tune D4, comparing all three intervals on the piano.

             Check the tuning in visual mode.

    Tutorial 2: Tuning an octave or P12th.

             Check one note visually.

             Play the second note synthetically, play and compare all interval tests.

             Tune the second note aurally, duplicating the sound of the "master" interval.

             Check the tuning in visual mode.

     

    Kent Swafford pointed out that the pinch-to-zoom function of the keyboard display makes this         easier.

    Pianoscope offers a free two week trial of the app.

    I have no financial interest in Pianoscope.

     

                  



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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 2.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-13-2022 18:56
    Very cool. Looks a lot like Piano Meter which was developed by our own Anthony Willey RPT that strangely gets no love on this forum. For half the cost of this fine German program Mr. Willey an American RPT provides a program which is available for Android as well as IOS and measures the piano in the same manner and time frame described above. Best of all the program leaves a pretty blue dot on the tuning curve for each note it hears allowing the tuner to set the ETD aside, tune aurally and then get an immediate visual report of how well they matched the theoretical tuning curve. Nothing against pianoscope but why does everyone in this industry default to trusting anyone with a Teutonic accent over someone with a Midwestern one?
    I have no financial interest in Piano Meter but I did use it to teach my nephew to tune better in six weeks than I did after three years.

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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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  • 3.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-13-2022 19:27
    Yes - pianometer is good although I use the Vogel CTS5 in battle.

    What the graph is good for in particular is showing what an instrument is like before I tune it
    and what it's like afterwards
    and this rather shows how flawed conventional tuning wisdom can be as that instrument, or a Steinway D
    Nice International Piano Competition 2022 - Unequal Temperament - (Piano Tuner's recording)
    or a Steinway S https://youtu.be/Pm2ZvjLVF9M?t=139
    can sound better afterwards than before.

    What appears interesting in the German software however (pity Android isn't available) is the ability to choose different and defined harmonic matching. That would be very interesting with which to experiment.

    Best wishes

    David P


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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
    +44 1342 850594
    "High Definition" Tuning
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  • 4.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-13-2022 20:59
    The point of my post was to convey a new mode of tuning which, so far as I know is only possible with PianoScope.
    Pianoscope generates sounds which match the inharmonicity of the piano being tuned.
    This makes it possible to do a digitally calculated tuning using only aural matching between the digital program and the piano.

    Additionally, PianoScope allows a wide range of choices of octave styles and partial matchings, pitch adjustment overpull calculations and considerable choice in adjusting the visual display format and also non-equal temperaments.

    But again what I'm trying to communicate is the possibility of a new way to tune and to practice the skill of matching tempered intervals by aural comparison to a carefully calculated aural sample.  Anders Ericsson in Peak discusses the importance of learning methods that focus on precise skills. Based on my understanding of his book, I believe the method I propose could be used to accelerate the learning of piano tuning and help the student to develop more precise tuning skills very early in the process.
    It enables a solitary beginner to focus immediately and directly on the sound of accurate tuning.

    If other app developers can offer similar programs, they could also be used in the same way.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 5.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-13-2022 22:36
    How does one play a twelfth and tune at the same time? (Asking for a friend)

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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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  • 6.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-13-2022 22:42
    Conversely, how do you play intervals on that tiny keyboard?

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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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  • 7.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-14-2022 08:01
    Now...if a program could listen to and analyze the beat rates of intervals AS ONE IS TUNING THEM, and show you the rate on the screen (and if course allow one to instantly compare intervals already tuned) THAT would be seriously cool.

    Of course it would also need to be "smart" enough to discern the relative partials for each interval being tuned on the fly. I doubt anyone is smart enough to produce such a program...you kind of need a brain for all that sophisticated stuff.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 8.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-14-2022 08:09
    The point of my post was to demonstrate that perhaps vanilla adherence to standard methods isn't always the recipe for best success.

    Ed's point is very well made and there's another approach also. I came to be applying my style of tuning whilst tuning the bass by ear and having the machine running in the background, noticing how the machine was behaving on a particular harmonic as I was tuning, and then enabling me to use the machine to bring a standardisation to other tunings. Machines or apps which provide opportunities for analysis and different perspectives on choosing which sounds to listen to, can be extremely informative. This app certainly brings such, although the features that open up such possibilities end up being quite pricey.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 9.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-14-2022 08:18
    Play one note on the piano, the second note on the app.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 10.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 03-27-2023 19:47

    PianoScope has just been optimized for bottom-to-top unisons-as-you-go tuning, using an app-generated tone as an aural target.  In over-pull mode, the synthesized target is appropriately adjusted for over-pull.  When headphones are used, and appropriate settings in the "audio" menu are chosen, the generated tone will automatically move to match the pitch played on the piano.  Briefly playing the note just below the currently sounding pitch pauses the generated tone, allowing for the pulling in of unisons without the generated tone present.  Playing any other pitch than these last two restarts the generated tone.

    Provided the piano has been appropriately sampled with the app before the tuning begins, the synthesized tone matches the inharmonicity characteristics of the instrument being tuned.

    I think this is really neat!



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    Floyd Gadd RPT
    Regina SK
    (306) 502-9103
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  • 11.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 03-27-2023 19:52

    These features are in the latest Beta version, which can be accessed in the "community" section of www.pianoscope.app



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    Floyd Gadd RPT
    Regina SK
    (306) 502-9103
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  • 12.  RE: A New Way to Learn to Tune a Piano!

    Posted 12-14-2022 08:18
      |   view attached
    Twelfth Bridge

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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