Pianotech

  • 1.  Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Member
    Posted 24 days ago

    I am interested in any members experience with acoustical issues they have encountered in large worship centers that have high pitched ceilings some stained glass windows, lots of wooden pews and polished concrete and tiled floors. The need here is to have clear speech but also good clarity from a high end electronic organ and two grand pianos. Too much reverb is not good but not enough projection or reverb  is also bad. I am involved in a situation in which a church was completely stripped down to the studs ceilings and walls removed and carpet town out.  Because much of the project has been secretive there is a  major anxiety by the music director, pianists, organist and concert series musicians that the new acoustics will be a disaster. It looks like many types of panels and hanging clouds, bass traps etc might be needed but before that perhaps a sound survey mapping etc  with measurements and instruments needs to be conducted with organ and speakers  and two grand pianos in place . Has anyone ever had to deal with such environment or knows of companies doing acoustical installs in churches ? 



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 24 days ago

    James, contact Chris Storch RPT who is a practicing acoustical engineer. President of the Boston PTG Chapter too. 617-489-6436, chrisstor@aol.com



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    Patrick Draine RPT
    Billerica MA
    (978) 663-9690
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  • 3.  RE: Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Member
    Posted 22 days ago

    Thank You He might be busy shovelling snow but I will contact him



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 4.  RE: Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 22 days ago

    I'm done shoveling, James.  ðŸ™‚



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    Christopher Storch RPT
    Belmont MA
    (617) 489-6436
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  • 5.  RE: Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 22 days ago

    "Because much of the project has been secretive there is a  major anxiety by the music director, pianists, organist and concert series musicians that the new acoustics will be a disaster." 

    It sounds like this is the more pressing issue. Seems like a lot of $ is being spent on church renovation in that area.   Are any of them acoustically successful?

    "I am involved". is even more concerning.  How 'involved' do you want to make yourself?  And how graciously would some helpful advice from some Yankee acoustical engineer be received?



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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    (917) 589-2625
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  • 6.  RE: Acoustical Issues In Worship Centers

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 22 days ago
    James,
    I've been involved with multiple churches dealing with acoustical issues.  It's super hard (or I should say, impossible!) to find answers that satisfy everyone.
    I'd like to relay my experience with my current church.  It is in a newly repurposed building bought in about 2010, originally build as a grocery store and used for other purposes since. The interior design of the church space is wider than deep, and as the walls took shape I was extremely concerned about the acoustics.  It's more than just internal volume (size) of the space and reverb time, it's also related to where the reflective surfaces are and their angles. 
    As the piano technician and as one of the primary sound system operators (at that time - not any more), and with previous church acoustical tuning experience, I asked if I could join the monthly project management meetings, and since I knew some of the members and they knew me they allowed me to join in.
    It was a time commitment on my part, and required me to discuss the issues carefully so as not to offend the architect (who wanted it super 'live' because of the budget and materials being used) and those who were donating a lot of the labor force.  
    At one meeting after the room had taken shape, they had still not agreed with installing any sound absorption surfaces at all, so we walked over into the space and I demonstrated to them what slap echo sounds like - it was brutally strong when standing on the stage area.  The reverb time in the room wasn't all that long, but the character of the sound reflections was loud and bright.  They wanted a 'live' stage also, with hard surfaces everywhere (it was plywood at this time, so I showed them how loud and reverberant any walking was) plus talked about the noise transmission that comes between band instruments through the floor and can cause feedback.  In addition, the air conditioners on the roof were not mounted on isolators, and they were running and rumbling that night (thankfully!) and the group was alarmed at how loud that was.  I told them that our church would look beautiful inside, I complemented the design in general,  but that the services would be very loud, it would be hard to understand the spoken word, and with strong rumbling from the 4 A/C units treating the roof like a giant bass resonator.
    I prefer the sound of acoustic instruments in a naturally reverberant environment (like a good concert hall), but our church is primarily one with amplified sound, and I wanted to dampen the room down and allow the sound operators to control the sound, not have to deal with the room problems. They eventually came up with a compromise, with carpeting and stiffening of the stage floor (thicker plywood, stronger support) sound absorbing material on the back walls and some on the side. I was told that installing isolation dampers on the A/C units cost close to a million dollars!  But wow, they really worked. Reverb and slap echo were well controlled, but the stage acoustics ended up being a little too loud still - the hard wood reflective surfaces on entire stage wall really intensified everything, and we couldn't control the band sound - the volume was being set by the drums and the stage monitors.  However, the spoken word was very clear and comfortable for the person speaking, and we had good gain before feedback.
    After some years we were able to make some changes to the stage by adding diffracting surfaces on the stage walls (for a while we hung decorative fabric there, later angled wood slats), plus more absorbing surfaces in the back of the house when the space was enlarged a bit.
    If you're interested, services are streamed online and you can get a good look at the resulting room layout: https://online.cclb.org/
    This is probably not the same church shape that you have, James, and the music is likely different (no choir and organ in ours), so in that case the acoustical design should not be dampened as well as ours. But the process needs to be done carefully and with consideration of the budget limitations and general preferences of the church.
    Good luck!
    Don Mannino RPT