Pianotech

  • 1.  Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-27-2023 18:34

    Hello all,

    I have a customer with a 1964 Baldwin L, and for some reason the mid treble section (capo bar), refuses to stay in tune.  The rest of the piano is fine, including the high treble, but after tuning this section and then playing it for about a half hour it is already going out.  I have tuned this piano several times and it continues to do this.

    The tuning pins are tight.  I have checked for things that may be affecting the sound, such as bridge pins (I did CA some of them), mating hammers, and looking at the capo for excessive grooving.  I also tightened plate screws in the pinblock area just in case.

    I was wondering if maybe this is a thing with Baldwin L that someone else has encountered.  Any ideas would be helpful.  Thanks!



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    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
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  • 2.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Posted 07-27-2023 19:47
    Are the strings riding high on the hitch pins?





  • 3.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Posted 07-27-2023 20:04
    Hi,

    More accurately, are they where they are supposed to be?

    A '64 L probably has Accu-Just hitch pins. If so, they are not supposed to contact the plate. Rather, the vertical placement of the strings on the pins is used to set bearing.

    The are a number of articles about this process in older journals now available via the guild website.

    Kind regards.

    Horace




      Original Message




  • 4.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-28-2023 00:15
    This piano doesn’t have accu-just hitch pins.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 5.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-27-2023 20:45
    Laura

    Tighten the plate screws/bolts around the perimeter. 





  • 6.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-28-2023 01:40

    These are almost always rendering problems, meaning how easily the strings move through the bearing points.  In these cases they are not moving so well so the string segments are not achieving equilibrium.

    Lubricate the contact points including capo bar, counterbearing front duplex, counterbearing felt/string contact with protek cpl or better Jon's CBL (not to be confused with CBD) and tune with very firm and repeated blows, a bit faster than one per second with a final and firmer test blow. 

    BTW, CBD oil is not recommended on pianos but if you do use it and the piano doesn't hold, it won't care as much.  



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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  • 7.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-28-2023 14:01

    Pianos are complicated. I regret any past flippant replies. Lot's for me to learn!

           Regarding equalizing string segments. I've found that light taps directly near contact points seems quick and effective. It spares the action and our ears by minimizing loud test blows.




  • 8.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-28-2023 22:55

    Some years ago I started wearing musicians ear plugs when I tune (about 17dbs of attenuation-custom fit now). Interestingly, that got me tuning with firmer blows which helped unison stability especially on pianos that have rendering problems. Prior to that, I probably, and instinctively, backed off the force of the tuning attack to protect my ears. I'm lucky, even at the rope old age of 71, I can still hear pitches all the way to the top even with the noise filters in place. 

    In fact, I now use them for first phase voicing when I'm just voicing the level of attack at forte (that is often where I start). The removal of extraneous, and damaging, noise allows me to focus on note to note differences and distortions at high dynamic levels. I then remove them for final phase voicing where I want to focus more on nuance and timbre. 

    BTW, Another method for stabilizing rendering problems is to have a hammer shank in your hand when you are tuning and to use the shank to flex the speaking length to the side slightly (1/8" or so is enough) and ideally the pitch shouldn't budge. This is a Steinway concert tech method that I learned from one of those folks. 



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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  • 9.  RE: Baldwin L tuning problem

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-29-2023 16:47

    There are always going to be certain parts of the scale that go out of tune faster than others.   In some cases this is because the bridge itself is moving (bottom of the tenor bridge, at the breaks) and in these parts of the scale it's mostly the intervals (ovtaves, fifths, maj. thirds, etc.) that are more noticeably affected.  However in the range where the capo starts it's the unisons that go out of tune. Everyone, no matter how unsophisticated a musician, will notice a funky unison.  It's not just an issue of rendering, though of course that is at the root of it.  It is because in this range of almost all pianos the nonspeaking length of the string (i.e. tuning pin to capo bar plus bridge to hitch pin) here becomes longer than the speaking length. In the base, this ratio is negligible; in the low tenor it's only fractional, but from here on up, the actual part of the string which vibrates to make the note you hear can be only half to a third or less of the total length of the string.  This disparity in speaking versus non-speaking length has the effect of amplifying any problems with rendering.  There are in my experience only two things that will help with this:  1. frequent tuning and 2. pounding the dickens out of it.  It's somewhat of a consolation that once you get into the sixth and seventh octaves the notes are not played nearly as much, and in the other direction, once you get into the agraffe area, the angled front scale with it's strip of felt can work as a stabilizing influence.  But that "melody" range is always going to be a problem.

     



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    Cecil Snyder RPT
    Torrance CA
    (310) 542-7108
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