Pianotech

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

That is also an argument for applying a good finish to the pinblock.  I like to use Benite followed by marine varnish (McCloskey) 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Parker,

Never heard of Benite. Any details? 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

That is also an argument for applying a good finish to the pinblock.  I like to use Benite followed by marine varnish (McCloskey) 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Marine sealer available from Grizzly.

Parker,

Never heard of Benite. Any details? 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

That is also an argument for applying a good finish to the pinblock.  I like to use Benite followed by marine varnish (McCloskey) 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I have never used (or heard of) Benite.  So I googled it.  It is made from Mineral Spirits, Castung, Linseed oil, Naptha.  The warnings for exposure are quite nasty, lots of ventilation needed, skin exposure, toxicity, cancer, etc.  If I wanted to create a vapor barrier to limit moisture travel to and from the pinblock, I would think an industrial epoxy like West systems would be the way to go.

Marine sealer available from Grizzly.

Parker,

Never heard of Benite. Any details? 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

That is also an argument for applying a good finish to the pinblock.  I like to use Benite followed by marine varnish (McCloskey) 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Marine sealer available from Grizzly.

Parker,

Never heard of Benite. Any details? 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

That is also an argument for applying a good finish to the pinblock.  I like to use Benite followed by marine varnish (McCloskey) 

In short, I have nothing to offer on the scale, but a couple comments on side notes of this thread.

Arledge just has some problems with some of his machines for a number of weeks. I'm sure this has put him behind- I had a couple dead strings on my last restringing job and he explained that the delay in getting me replacements was due to this.

In regards to the tuning stability issue, this is exactly what John Parham theorizes, and he has done some great experiments that suggest that the pinblock has a lot to do with stability. It makes me wonder if multi-laminate boards like Delignit or Falconwood have the advantage of greater stability since they are less affected by humidity?

I have had a bit of difficulty contacting James of late. Seems he is going in other directions these days (though I can't absolutely confirm this). 

At any rate on a side note, I have long theorized that much tuning instability (unisons primarily) has to do with the pinblock expansion/contraction. As I have tunedvthis piano for a number of years I have been significantly impressed with its seasonal stability (in comparison to many other pianos) of course not knowing that the tuning pins were primarily being held by the plate rather than just the pinblock. In addition to this the extremely sloppy existing stringing job had MANY pins so deep that the coils were jammed on to the plate with quite a few overlapping coils. Pins were extremely tight, but tight in the plate. It now appears that the tuning stability came largely from this anomaly. 

I find this to be rather interesting. 🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Try James Arledge Strings. I replaced all of the bass strings including 21 wound strings after the bass break sitting above the other bass strings. This was on a Chas Stieff Parlor Grand. After I did a tracing and measured/mic ed the strings we discovered he did have the scale after all. Lots of these pianos can be found up in MD and VA area

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Hi Peter

for what it's worth, the rebuilder I worked with, Richard Salamone, told me that Stief copied Steinway scales of the day. I'm not sure if that was all models or the one we rebuilt. The only note I have on it is that it was approximately 6'. There were no model numbers. Serial number 40523. Are there any wound strings on the treble bridge? Just curious. 
Stewart

------------------------------
Stewart Freedman, RPT
Freedman Piano Service
Akron, OH

Original Message:
Sent: 12-23-2024 17:47
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Charles Stieff grand scale 37

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Stewart,

Serial number here is 43862. There are no tenor wound strings. I have run the numbers and made some mods and have arrived at a scale that looks actually quite good "on paper". Considering that I don't recall any glaring tuning anomalies in the piano (even with a strictly whole number scale), I figure there's no where to go but up. I usually have Gregor Heller make my bass strings so I'm likely to do that here as well. 

As to sealing the pinblock, I have used epoxy of late, but previously a couple coats of fresh shellac. Finally, no matter how good a fit I get with the block/plate, my final thing is to use thick epoxy all along the flange, producing as perfect a fit as I can imagine. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-26-2024 08:45
From: Stewart Freedman
Subject: Charles Stieff grand scale 37

Hi Peter

for what it's worth, the rebuilder I worked with, Richard Salamone, told me that Stief copied Steinway scales of the day. I'm not sure if that was all models or the one we rebuilt. The only note I have on it is that it was approximately 6'. There were no model numbers. Serial number 40523. Are there any wound strings on the treble bridge? Just curious. 
Stewart

------------------------------
Stewart Freedman, RPT
Freedman Piano Service
Akron, OH

Original Message:
Sent: 12-23-2024 17:47
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Charles Stieff grand scale 37

Anyone familiar with this scale? It's a 5'8" piano with 27 bass notes and 61 plain wire notes. Looking to see if anyone has an original string scale for it  (curiosity factor since I will in fact measure and draft a scale) in their records. Travis book has things close but no exact fit. 

This one was very poorly restrung so I can't rely on anything from it. 5/0 pins literally threaded through the plate into the old pinblock. An absolute bear to remove these they are so tight!

Just wondering.,.  🤔 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------