Pianotech

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 1/27/2023 2:54:00 PM
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

I agree with Wim. The Spurlock tool PianoTek sells for this makes the job much easier. But I would get a bag of rice instead of the Spurlock bean bag - it doesn't have enough weight to it.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 15:27
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Damper timing

I would leave the spoons alone. Adjust the dampers on the wires. 

Original Message:
Sent: 1/27/2023 2:54:00 PM
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Sure, spoon bending is how we adjusted the damper timing in the factories. I'm certain Petrof does it the same way. Choose a white key on the end of each section and bend the spoon up or down to have the damper start to move when the hammer is half way to the string. Personally, I lightly put a finger on top of the subject damper to feel when it starts to move.  The half way point is a judgement thing but you can make a gauge if you want if the blow distance is equal all along the scale. Then with an appropriately long straight edge (we had various length straight edges but we were working on a limited number of models of the same manufacturer), bend the remaining spoons of the section to line up with your guides.
Hints:

• Avoid sample dampers like in the tenor or high bass that have special bends in the wire above the guide rail to keep the damper away from the plate.
• Use a needle nose pliers to bend the spoon or one of those upright damper wire benders if the slot is wide enough for your spoons. I always used the pedal to lift the dampers when doing this to avoid damage to the damper felts. Just a precaution...
• Be very careful of causing trauma to the damper underlever center pins.
• Make arrow marks with soft chalk (easy to rub off) on the plate near the section ends to indicate whether the spoon needs to go up or down. A large arrow means a large movement, small arrow means a small adjustment.  A dash or zero circle means the spoon is just right. Do the section ends of the whole keyboard at once with the action in the piano. By making these marks, you'll pull the action in and out a minimum number of times.
• You'll be done before you know it!
• And there will be a very minimum of damper regulation to correct dancing dampers (if they started out well adjusted).

Any further questions, just ask. Happy to help.
Joel

------------------------------
Joel Rappaport
Round Rock TX
(512) 255-0440
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 14:54
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Yes, I just completed a Bosendorfer with the same setup and I was astounded as to the ease of creating perfect lift with capstan and then very accurate timing using spoons. Piece of cake compared to the typical American system. I'll take this any day of the week! 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 19:18
From: Priscilla Rappaport
Subject: Damper timing

Sure, spoon bending is how we adjusted the damper timing in the factories. I'm certain Petrof does it the same way. Choose a white key on the end of each section and bend the spoon up or down to have the damper start to move when the hammer is half way to the string. Personally, I lightly put a finger on top of the subject damper to feel when it starts to move.  The half way point is a judgement thing but you can make a gauge if you want if the blow distance is equal all along the scale. Then with an appropriately long straight edge (we had various length straight edges but we were working on a limited number of models of the same manufacturer), bend the remaining spoons of the section to line up with your guides.
Hints:

• Avoid dampers like in the tenor or high bass that have special bends in the wire above the guide rail to keep the damper away from the plate.
• Use a needle nose pliers to bend the spoon or one of those upright damper wire benders if the slot is wide enough for your spoons. I always used the pedal to lift the dampers when doing this to avoid damage to the damper felts. Just a precaution...
• Be very careful of causing trauma to the damper underlever center pins.
• Make arrow marks with soft chalk (easy to rub off) on the plate near the section ends to indicate whether the spoon needs to go up or down. A large arrow means a large movement, small arrow means a small adjustment.  A dash or zero circle means the spoon is just right. Do the section ends of the whole keyboard at once with the action in the piano. By making these marks, you'll pull the action in and out a minimum number of times.
• You'll be done before you know it!
• And there will be a very minimum of damper regulation to correct dancing dampers (if they started out well adjusted).

Any further questions, just ask. Happy to help.
Joel

------------------------------
Joel Rappaport
Round Rock TX
(512) 255-0440

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 14:54
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 1/27/2023 9:33:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Damper timing

Yes, I just completed a Bosendorfer with the same setup and I was astounded as to the ease of creating perfect lift with capstan and then very accurate timing using spoons. Piece of cake compared to the typical American system. I'll take this any day of the week! 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 19:18
From: Priscilla Rappaport
Subject: Damper timing

Sure, spoon bending is how we adjusted the damper timing in the factories. I'm certain Petrof does it the same way. Choose a white key on the end of each section and bend the spoon up or down to have the damper start to move when the hammer is half way to the string. Personally, I lightly put a finger on top of the subject damper to feel when it starts to move.  The half way point is a judgement thing but you can make a gauge if you want if the blow distance is equal all along the scale. Then with an appropriately long straight edge (we had various length straight edges but we were working on a limited number of models of the same manufacturer), bend the remaining spoons of the section to line up with your guides.
Hints:

• Avoid dampers like in the tenor or high bass that have special bends in the wire above the guide rail to keep the damper away from the plate.
• Use a needle nose pliers to bend the spoon or one of those upright damper wire benders if the slot is wide enough for your spoons. I always used the pedal to lift the dampers when doing this to avoid damage to the damper felts. Just a precaution...
• Be very careful of causing trauma to the damper underlever center pins.
• Make arrow marks with soft chalk (easy to rub off) on the plate near the section ends to indicate whether the spoon needs to go up or down. A large arrow means a large movement, small arrow means a small adjustment.  A dash or zero circle means the spoon is just right. Do the section ends of the whole keyboard at once with the action in the piano. By making these marks, you'll pull the action in and out a minimum number of times.
• You'll be done before you know it!
• And there will be a very minimum of damper regulation to correct dancing dampers (if they started out well adjusted).

Any further questions, just ask. Happy to help.
Joel

------------------------------
Joel Rappaport
Round Rock TX
(512) 255-0440

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 14:54
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Rex,
Here is what I think the sequence should be for regulating pianos with spoon-equipped damper underlevers:
1) Get the underlever bodies a uniform distance (height) above the keybed. This is done first to ensure a uniform elevation of the sostenuto tabs during subsequent regulation. Regulate the underlever bodies by placing a jig of suitable height on the keybed and resting each underlever on it. Loosen the topflange setscrew at the damper wire and settle the body on the jig, while simultaneously settling the damper head felt into the unison. Tighten the screw. Now all the bodies and sostenuto tabs will be in a straight line.
2) Regulate the spoons to the keytails. Establish a desired lift timing for a sample underlever by bending its spoon up/down. Set an adjustable gauge to this setting. Place the gauge on the keybed and regulate (bend) all the spoons to this elevation. Now all the underlevers will be timed to the keys uniformly.
3) Now regulate the underlevers/damper tray to the sustain pedal for uniform lift.. Adjust the individual underlever capstans so that all underlevers lift uniformly and level using the sustain pedal.
4) Lastly, regulate the sostenuto blade to the tabs on the underlevers.

David G. Hughes, RPT

------------------------------
David Hughes RPT
Vintage Case Parts
Glyndon MD
(443) 522-2201
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2023 14:54
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------

Rex,
How’s the pedal lift timing? If that’s good, then I would take a look at the spoons to see what angle they come out of the underlevers. If they are not angling down, I would test one by bending to change the timing. I think one may not want to have the spoons angling down and digging into key end felt as the key rises. By bending spoons rather than moving the damper wire in the top post of the underlever, you avoid having to perfect damper travel, twisting heads, etc. As Peter mentioned, having capstans will make the pedal lift timing much easier, but if you don’t, bring a huge sack of patience to the job!

Joe Wiencek
NYC


Original Message:
Sent: 1/27/2023 2:54:00 PM
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Damper timing

I have a Petroff grand that needs to have the damper timing adjusted because it is lifting to late from the keys. In the past I have always made this adjustment from the damper wire. This piano has spoons that contact the keys. Is it still appropriate to adjust at the wire or should it be adjusted with the spoon?

Thank you.

------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Norton OH
(330) 289-2948
------------------------------