Pianotech

  • 1.  Elbow removal and replacement

    Member
    Posted 07-17-2023 13:35

    I am about to replace the elbows on a Wintert Spinet which is a family heirloom . I have the clear elbow replacement that snap on the center pin of the whippen.

    The problem is how do i get the toe of the old elbow off since the pin goes through the toe. I am thinking I can use a Dremel with a plastic cutting disc and set the depth of the cut on the cutting shield.I would make a cut that stops short of the pin and then apply some heat from a heat gun. Does anyone have a tip/technique such as using a plastic cutting plier , shears.

    Perhaps I should just repin with new center pins ?????



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: Elbow removal and replacement

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-17-2023 14:24

    When I've done this, the old plastic elbows have been so brittle that they crumble when I squeeze them with a pair of basic pliers. I've not had one that had the toe intact when I finished squeezing them. If there was one, you could probably squeeze the toe and it would break before the pin would be damaged. I would start there, as that's the easiest and fastest option I can think of. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 3.  RE: Elbow removal and replacement

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-17-2023 14:49
      |   view attached
    James.

    Attached is an article I wrote on how to replace elbows. 

    Wim



    Attachment(s)

    docx
    book, plastic elbows.docx   19 KB 1 version


  • 4.  RE: Elbow removal and replacement

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-17-2023 14:50

    I usually try to tear it off.  Sometimes a few elbows are still solid, so I leave them alone.  If they break off, all I need to do is to crush them with needle-nose pliers.  If they don't break out, I'll try my flush-cutters.  Just be careful not to damage the wood in the process.  Some guys modify nipper type pliers by grinding them just under the width of the wood slot in the wippen, then bite off whatever's in there.  Heat gun?  Might singe the wood.  Getting the pin out, if it's damaged, is a bit of a trip, but can be done in place if you push up on the neighboring wippens.  Center pin pliers won't have enough room to work with wippens in place, so removing the action is needed if you can't get the pins out/in by hand.  Luckily they don't have bushings so they won't need sizing.  It's a messy process, so bring your vacuum and a drop cloth for all the bits and pieces that will go everywhere.  If you hold the wires with a vice grip plier exactly where it enters the old elbow, when you put the new one on, screw it in right up to the pliers.  Then you won't need to adjust too much lost motion when you're done.  Or you could mark the wire with a felt pen.  There are at least a half dozen ways to do this job, just do what needs to be done, whatever works for you.



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Elbow removal and replacement

    Posted 07-18-2023 12:18

    Yes, grind down the pliers so you don't spread the flanges and crack the wood. I have a electric strippers that have a plier end for looping electric wire. They are already narrow enough. I have broken a wippen before so be careful.



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    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    (209) 770-4312
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  • 6.  RE: Elbow removal and replacement

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2023 19:44

    All the elbow jobs that I run across nowadays--there are few left out there--have a mixture of some very brittle and other still malleable elbows.  I suspect the original formulation was not stirred sufficiently.  I usually snap off the body of the elbow first, then remove the hangar wires from the back of the keys. Turn the remaining stubs of the elbow so the broken bit is pointing back and the rounded tip is facing you.  Use a small vise grip with needle nose jaws to crush the remnant still on the wippen flange center.  If it doesn't crumble don't persevere.  If it's soft enough it will merely expand outward cracking the thin sides of the wippen.  Using a soldering iron with a small chisel point tip, burn into the tip of the elbow right through to the center pin then grip it and pull it off the pin.  That old plastic melts quite easily.

    It's usually easy to crush the remains of the elbow still clinging to the hangar wire.  A few may need to be spun off.

    There are some devices they used to sell to spin on the new elbows.   A simple substitute is to firmly clip a larger size vise grip to the hanger wire about an inch or so above the where the old elbow was mounted.  Holding the new elbow in one hand and grasping the hangar wire at the other end just below the adjusting nut, use the weight of the vise grip to spin on the new elbow.  It goes quite fast.

    Before you mount the new elbows, measure a few samples of the old ones to gauge the average distance between the adjusting nut and the top of the elbow.   This will get you in the ballpark for adjusting lost motion.

    One last tip.  The Jaras substitute elbows are great but occasionally you'll run across one where the jaws are a bit to tight to allow you to squeeze the elbow onto the wippen center pin with that satisfying little ka-thunk that tells you it's seated.  For this reason I always carry a point file in my bag of elbows.  A point file is the small file that was commonly used back in the day to dress the "points" in the distributor of a car.   You'll find them a dime a dozen at any swap meet.  They also work perfectly to file down the gap in those balky elbows.  I believe this is standard but mine is double sided with a thickness of .044"

    You can do all this without removing the action from the piano, but if you're new to it you'd best take it back to the shop till you have some experience. A pair of parallel pliers will help to avoid any collateral damage to the wippen when cracking off the old elbows.



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    Cecil Snyder RPT
    Torrance CA
    (310) 542-7108
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