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Hammer hardening

  • 1.  Hammer hardening

    Member
    Posted 07-13-2024 16:32
    Client has a Yamaha vertical and complains the sound is too soft, mushy.
    52 years ago, my mentor Sheldon Smith wrote this in a letter to me: "Use clear lacquer. Mix a solution, 10 parts thinner, 1 part lacquer. Use this formula on top 15 hammers only. Apply directly to striking point. Mix a second solution, 20 parts thinner to 1 part lacquer for the remaining areas that are dull. Again this can be put on striking point. It can be voiced out, or if need be can be washed out by applying straight thinner."


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    Jason Kanter
    Lynnwood WA
    (425) 830-1561
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  • 2.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2024 16:59
    Before adding the lacquer solution your mentor gave, which is good, btw, I would shape the hammers first and see how that affects the tone.

    Wim.
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 3.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Posted 07-13-2024 17:01
    Hi, Jason,

    Sheldon was a good friend; and a brilliant technician...still missed.

    I remember this kind of conversation with him pretty clearly.

    While I think that this method still works very well, it seems important to remember that, when Sheldon (and others) were using this method, the range and domain of hammers that were available was much more narrowly defined than it is now.

    For many Yamaha hammers, this method should work well...(...after shaping, &c ad nauseam).

    What I continue to find useful about this method (especially when used with medium-to-hard pressed hammers) is that it (the method) is so very flexible. One can make multiple applications should one want; and, as Sheldon notes, can be readily washed out.

    Thanks for noting Sheldon.

    Kind regards.

    Horace




      Original Message




  • 4.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2024 18:41

    I have found that some of the older Yamaha consoles like the M1 or M2 are a bit more mellow... I have yet to try to voice one up.

    What I have done, on new Renner hammers on a Steinway that were voiced down quite a bit more than the customer liked, was put a just a single drop of something much stronger (4:1) in each hammer groove. This made the tone have strong high partials even when played pianissimo -- not really what we're taught to do in most cases, but it's what this customer wanted based on the recordings they liked. It wasn't offensive or lacking in color, just more like a breathy whisper instead of a murmur. I'm sure thinner solutions can work as well... But in theory we should preserve the resilience of the "core" area deeper below the strike point, so based on that I think it makes sense to err towards not soaking it in very far. So I'd rather use something thick and get the job done with a single drop.

    Caveat, I don't have much experience voicing with lacquer. I do a lot more filing, needling, and ironing...



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    Nathan Monteleone RPT
    Fort Worth TX
    (817) 675-9494
    nbmont@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Posted 07-14-2024 00:48
    The lacquer back then was nitrocellulose and we can’t buy that here in California.
    I don’t know if that’s true where you are.
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 6.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-14-2024 02:38

    It really depends on the lacquer and the amount of solids. I don't use off the shelf lacquer (nitro) because these are furniture lacquers and have hardening agents that rob the fiber of elasticity and can develop crystalline sounds that can be unpleasant. Neither do I advocate hardening only the strike point unless the foundation of the hammer is already stiff enough. Otherwise you can end up with a reverse gradient where the hammer is bright on soft blows but doesn't develop a fuller spectrum of partials on progressively firmer blows, which it should. So you first need to determine what part of the hammer needs stiffening. You do that by listening.  If it's been sugar coated excessively and the crown is too soft a light filling would be better to start with. If you have to harden, and  I've mentioned this before, the HammerLac product that Pianotek used to sell, now sold by Schaff, is "soft setting lacquer", meaning it stiffens the felt but remains flexible, almost rubbery, when it cures which is what you want. The solution strengths for this product are much stronger than you mention. A light application would be 15-20% solution by weight, a heavy application would be 40-45%. With new Steinway style hammers (Bacon Felt) I use a 30% in the tenor and bass and a 40% solution in the capo sections. In your case I would start out pretty light but only after a light filling and polishing of the hammer strike point with fine paper (600-800 grit) and double checking the hammer string mating. 



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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  • 7.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Member
    Posted 07-15-2024 16:21
    I've ordered HammerLac. What is the best product to dilute it with?
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    jason's cell 425 830 1561







  • 8.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-16-2024 12:16

    I use either Acetone or Lacquer thinner.  Acetone flashes off faster but I'm not sure I've been able to detect any tonal difference.  On an upright I would just apply from the high shoulder (10:30) on the top of the hammer (orientation) and observe that it wicks all the way to the molding.  But before that test the hammer on firm blows and if the hammer is giving the power that you need on forte that means it's firm in the inner core of the hammer and just lacking, perhaps, partial development (i.e. it's not bright enough).  In that case you'll want to think about it accordingly as to where you harden.  These are judgment calls. 

    For sampling purposes (your situation is a little different) I usually have hammers treated with a couple of different strengths, say 20% and 30%, 40% (by weight).  I then can sample on a piano I'm replacing hammers on to see where I think my starting point should be on that particular piano.  There will be better matches depending on various factors.  Often the capo section needs a bit stronger solution. I sample around note 40 and note 60 and, usually, and around note 16, though the bass on most pianos is very forgiving.  Your situation is a little different as the hammers are already on there but I would probably use a fairly light solution, treat one hammer in the middle and one in the mid treble, let it dry, give it an hour or so, and test to see how that is for the customer.  It will continue to harden some but you'll have a pretty good sense after an hour.  I would be cautious about overdoing hardening on a Yamaha since those hammers already tend to be firm and bringing a hammer back is a little different than building one from scratch, don't ask me why.

    If you determine that the hammer is firm internally but just, say, over sugarcoated, then I would just do a light filing and polishing with very fine grit and be sure to check that the hammer/string mating is precise.  



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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  • 9.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Member
    Posted 07-15-2024 16:26
    "High-grade lacquer thinner", per an old Pianotek info sheet.
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    jason's cell 425 830 1561


    On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 1:20 PM Jason Kanter <jasonkanter@gmail.com> wrote:
    I've ordered HammerLac. What is the best product to dilute it with?
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    jason's cell 425 830 1561







  • 10.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-15-2024 17:30

    Acetone works too, and will evaporate a bit quicker.



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    Nathan Monteleone RPT
    Fort Worth TX
    (817) 675-9494
    nbmont@gmail.com
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  • 11.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Posted 07-15-2024 17:45
    Hi,

    While acetone does evaporate more quickly, it also has a tendency to wick whatever hardener to the surface(s) of the felt, especially at the corners/edges of the hammer. Much depends on the ratio of the solution.

    These are all just parts and pieces in a technician's kit, so to speak. There are too many variables at play to imagine that any one-size-fits-all is going to be successful at all times; and in all places.

    Kind regards.

    Horace




      Original Message




  • 12.  RE: Hammer hardening

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-15-2024 21:43
    I used to use the hammer hardener from Schaff - the kind you can use directly on the crown. Now I just use Mohawk Lacquer Clear Gloss spray. A couple of back and forth sprays across the hammers. (Protect the table and shanks). Wait 30 minutes. Usually no after voicing is needed. It sounds great.

    Sent from my iPhone