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Kawai RX3 action spread

  • 1.  Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-07-2022 07:53
    Would someone tell me correct action spread for a Kawai RX3?

    Thanks,

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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 2.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-07-2022 15:26
    I believe the action rail/brackets are notched such that they can only fit one way.

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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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  • 3.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-07-2022 22:51
    Hello  Steve,

    I have not seen the piano yet and the pianist is complaining of a heavy touch.  It is not just her opinion, but another pianist and technician tell her it has a heavy touch.  I like to start with some basics, such as action spread.  I have seen a lot of Bostons and some Kawais with heavy touches and there are some remedies.  I have not seen that many RX models. 

    Since I will not see the piano until the end of the month to diagnose the issues, I am looking for what I consider some basic specifications.  I can't find anything in searches for Kawai.  I assume it is 12.5mm or 13.5mm, but some pianos have a little different spec.  Or I could just do it the old fashion way and experiment with different spreads.

    I'm not saying this piano has an issue with the action spread, but I like to make sure that is in order before I really dig in.

    But what you are telling me  is the brackets won't allow adjustment.

    Thanks Steve for the information.

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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 4.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-07-2022 23:10
    Tim, David Reed fields the calls at Kawai, I'd run the situation by him. I did once ask him about action spread and he told me that the design locked the spread in, and that was the case on the piano I was working on, it wasn't an RX though. But he's a fount of information and could give you a check list of things to look for. Could be that it's just badly out of regulation if it's got some mileage on it.

    David M. Reed  RPT

    Technical Support Manager

    Kawai America Corporation

    800-421-2177 ext. 860

    dReed@kawaius.com



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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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  • 5.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Member
    Posted 09-07-2022 23:27
    Could be many things related to too much friction, need to ease keys, check hammer swings and take gram measurements, too early damper let, need to strengthen the rep springs, jack to knuckle alignment, need to clean/polish/lubricate key pins, burnish #2 lead into jack tops and whippen window, tightness of key mortise on front key pin and the key button  etc  The piano may never have had regulation - also good to clean up knuckles and work in some teflon. I did a lot of this type work on a Kawai 500 and it played like greased lightening. Stay away from trying to mess with the spread


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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 6.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-07-2022 23:30
    The RXs I've seen have a light to medium touch. I'd probably start by looking at potential friction issues.

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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 7.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-08-2022 07:18
    Hello All,

    I appreciate the suggestions.  All good and are on my usual protocol list.  I'm told the previous technician lubricated the action (not sure what that means to him).  But part of my protocol is to check the action spread and I am getting some good advice here.

    Benjamin, my few experiences with RXs is the same as yours.  So, as I have told the client, something seems awry.

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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 8.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Posted 09-08-2022 07:21
    Agree about friction. Most likely key sticks. Check both key bushings and balance holes. It's very common and doesn't take long to address.

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    John Formsma
    New Albany MS

    "Sneak up on optimal."
    --Ron Nossaman
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  • 9.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-08-2022 19:19
    As has been said, the rails in Kawai actions are fixed and the action spread cannot be moved more than a few 10ths of a millimeter.  So that's why this spec is not published.

    Heavy touch checklist for Kawai actions:
    - Regulation is off, especially hammer blow. Should be 46mm. Check jack alignment to knuckles also, makes it feel heavy.
    - Knuckle condition. If they have become flat, needle the core felt side to side to bulge them back into round shape.  3 to 4 long needle passes through the core right at the flat area usually does it.
    - Wippen cushions have become cupped. I flip the top action over and apply hot 50% isopropyl to the dimples, let them dry overnight. 
                After these 2 items, I put the action in the piano, close the lid, and go at it with my fists for 10 minutes to settle things down.  Then do the regulation.
    - Polish capstans
    - Polish key pins, apply TFL-50 or your favorite dry lube.
    - Dampers have settled down low, raise the levers on the wires to lift at 1/2 hammer blow.

    When new, the actions are set for 56grams down weight, and in the aria of 28 - 30 grams upweight.  This should not feel heavy, because the mass in the action is relatively low.

    You can customize the action to make it lighter by replacing the old tan colored wippens with the new black carbon fiber wippens, which are both lighter and better designed.  Makes a big difference - but this isn't the first thing to do!  The action should be serviced well first to work as it was originally, then if the customer wants to take it further call Kawai for the current price on a set of wippens.

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    Don Mannino RPT
    Kawai America Corporation
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  • 10.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-09-2022 06:16
    Don,

    Excellent list! One question though. I understand how a lighter wippen can help a heavy action, but what kind of design changes to the wippen would help with a heavy touch?

    Bill McKaig,RPT




  • 11.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-09-2022 17:37
    - Small design changes were made to reduce friction in the action.
    - Jack mass and surface texture was modified to lower mass (improving repetition) and improve control in soft playing.

    There are lots of small things that were done to improve the overall feel, control and performance of the action.

    Don,

    Excellent list! One question though. I understand how a lighter wippen can help a heavy action, but what kind of design changes to the wippen would help with a heavy touch?

    Bill McKaig,RPT
    William McKaig,  09-09-2022 06:15



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    Don Mannino RPT
    Kawai America Corporation
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  • 12.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-12-2022 08:39
    Thanks Don for the excellent reply!

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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 13.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-14-2022 15:26
    Don, I appreciate all the amazing insight you share with the wider world of piano techs. 

    This is a timely topic for me, as I've been working with a KG-2C from 1981.  After discovering the jacks burying in the cushions, I knew something with geometry was off.  I went searching for specs on action spread, and I found a posted spec of 109mm for action spread on Kawai.  Checking on this piano I found it was closer to 108mm.  I was able to loosen the screws, move the rail back, adjust letoff and drop and "voila!".  I now have an action where the whippens are no longer stopped by the jacks smashing their cushions at the end of key travel, and it makes such a big difference!  It previously had that feeling of a damper upstop rail that is too low, that can't get to fortissimo feeling of stuffy dissatisfaction.  :)

    I realize this is an older Kawai, well before the RX series.  So, I'm only posting to share my experience with this specific KG-series instrument. 

    I can heartily agree with the list of friction-reducing tasks as presented by Don.  I've done every one!  I wish I'd had that list at the beginning of this journey. 

    All the best,
    Nick

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    Nicholas Litterski, RPT RPT
    Austin TX
    (512) 573-8920
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  • 14.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-01-2022 08:43
    Hi Don,

    Any idea the longevity of this process?  I worked on the piano yesterday and it made a huge difference.  The client would like to know how often this work will need to be done.  My experience has shown it seems to have a long life.

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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 15.  RE: Kawai RX3 action spread

    Posted 06-02-2023 17:09

    Action spread of a rx-3 is 113.5mm :)



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    Bruce SATO
    QC
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