This is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
Paul
Original Message:
Sent: 6/1/2023 1:45:00 PM
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: RE: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
Many years ago I created this page:
For Tuners: Listening to Beat Rates. Illustrating the beats of major thirds from A2 to F4.
I don't know if this might help, but I doubt it can hurt.
Cheers
Jason Kanter
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Jason Kanter
Lynnwood WA
(425) 830-1561
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-01-2023 13:14
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
Scott Cole went:
It occurred to me why so many of us have trouble setting F3-A3: 7 beats can't be subdivided into either 2 or 3. Is there beat rate that can?
The musicians' subdivision can still accommodate an uneven grouping: one-e-and-a-two-and-a
Still there's no point in replicating 7bps when it was never anything more than an arbitrary example for instructional purposes. What is really required is a ladder of M3ds whose rungs are proportionately spaced. As mentioned before, it's a starting place, from which the actual beat rate speeds for that piano can be arrived at.
One doesn't even need to be able to achieve the 7bps starting point for that 1st 3d. Just get rolling through the iterations, nudging the rungs up and down, and that F3 will undoubtedly get moved. The ability at set a 7pbs 3d for a starting point is far less important than the ability to hear proportionally-spaced beat rates, whatever they may be on that piano.
And it bears repeating, avoid "inbred" skeletons by making sure the C#3/F3 and F4/A4 that your skeleton works when extrapolated outside of those three 3ds inside the F3/F4 octave.
For my first 15 years, I tuned the "William Braid White" 4ths&5ths temperament, which depends on inference instead of an initial proof as to the proper inclusion of a piano's inharmonicity. I was delighted, when introduced to the 3ds&6ths scheme, by its handling of inharmonicity's warping of a temperament as its first order of business. I'm happy whenever anyone puts this scheme forth; if you're tuning your temperament aurally, the 3ds&6ths scheme is the only way to go.
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William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 06-01-2023 10:23
From: Scott Cole
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
While I am an RPT, I can't say I'm an aural tuning expert. (In fact, I'm looking forward to getting a coaching session at convention this year.)
It occurred to me why so many of us have trouble setting F3-A3: 7 beats can't be subdivided into either 2 or 3. Is there beat rate that can? Sure-D4-F3, which is 8 bps. That can be mentally subdivided into 4 very easily, which can then easily be subdivided into 8.
So, instead of jumping through hoops to try to get 7 bps, has anyone ever proposed simply tuning D4 between A3 and A4, then tuning F3 from D4? If the F-A is just noticeably slower than the 8 bps of F-D, then you should be very, very close to 7bps.
Am I reinventing the wheel here, or is my wheel square? It just seems that, of all the ways to go after tuning the A octave, tuning F3 is the hardest for beginners.
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Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2023 19:50
From: James Kelly
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
I guess you are referring to the stack of thirds that Jack Stebbins came up with and taught it at PTG conferences with the class title "Let THe Piano Tell You "
He was an instructor when I was at North Bennet Street School and was an excellent one.
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2023 16:57
From: Peter Grey
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
The other beauty of Jack's Stack is that it identifies THE speed that THAT piano wants F3-A3 to beat at. Once THAT speed is determined, everything else works out like spreading butter (if that makes any sense).
Peter Grey Piano Doctor
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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2023 16:31
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
The 3ds&6ths temperament is as old as the hills, and yes, it does everything it claims to. At regular intervals, it shows up in the Journal (and PTG discussion groups); the two articles you mention are just the latest. Congratulations for attempting this aurally.
The crucial point is that whatever beat speeds you may come up with, with the 3 thirds inside the F3-F4 temperament octave, they HAVE TO BE confirmed by a contiguous M3d on either side of these (the C#3/F3 or the F4/A4), or even better both of these. A set of 3rds within that single octave can sound as though their beat rates progress at a constant ratio. However, it's entirely possible that the overall spread of beat rates (across these three M3ds) is too slow or too fast. This can (and must) be confirmed by seeing how this spacing of beat rates remains even/proportional once you step outside that single octave. If your C#/F3 3d is too fast then your starting beat rate (the F3/A3 3d) is too slow, and conversely as well. Start over with the prescribed proportional tempering of 3rds, this time including those two outside 3ds in your initial construction.
Mark Cerisano is creating clever digital tools to familiarize us with the sound of commonly thought 4:5 ratio between contiguous 3ds. Undoubtedly, his next step will be one where we can slide the notes of this skeleton b or # and hear the resulting increase in beat rate speeds.
One final note. This is not about counting beat rates, but hearing them. 7 bps for the F3/A3 3rd may only work on a fraction of the pianos out there; the same goes for the actual ratio between the 3ds in the skeleton. Your Mileage May Vary. What it comes down to is hearing the smooth (proportional) relationship between the 3rds involved.
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William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 05-31-2023 12:07
From: Sean Weinert
Subject: New piano technician, made an Apple Watch beat speeds app
I'm a new piano technician apprenticing under an RPT here in Denver. I've been working on different temperaments, still haven't tuned a decent one yet, but practicing!
I've been trying out the Jack's stack / Cerisano 'Skeleton' from last month's Journal and always find myself asking if my F-A is 7(ish) bps. I've learned some of the things like "From Chicago to New York" - but wondered if I could make more of a visual-tuning aid tool (ETD/strobe tuner-esque?) - so I whipped up a quick app that does just that. Set a beat speed, press start, does the partial beat in time with the watch?
If anyone wants to try or provide feedback just let me know. I am now currently trying to get the apple watch to play back specific reference tones with little luck, but we'll see.... I'm also happy to move this over to Android watch as well, I just didn't have a watch to test with...
It's free! - PianoBPS
I'd never plan to make money on the app store, but if you like it/use it, consider buying me a coffee instead!
-Sean
littletonpiano.com
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Sean Weinert
Littleton CO
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