Pianotech

  • 1.  Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Posted 02-18-2024 14:23

    Recently I took issue with the originator of an instructional video about posture when tuning.

    The instructor was demonstrating tuning and doing so standing up. Instead, generally I advocate sitting down and specifically resting my arm over the front of the frame of the instrument and by doing so limit movement to what is made possible by wrist and fingers.

    If standing up with one's arm not anchored, one's relying on all muscles further back in the chain of hinges that the body represents and balance right down to the feet.

    However much the operator makes a conscious effort not to do so the capacity of the body to produce unwanted downwards forces on the end of the lever is there.
    When learning to play the piano often teachers will address the student's posture from which the hand may best caress the keys. In my opinion attention to muscle control when tuning is equally important.
    Today upon visiting a friend for lunch he'd told me that the BBC had come to record him a few weeks ago . . . and it's been months since I dealt with his instrument. I'd brought tools just in case anything needed tidying up and I did a unison that he'd noticed and a couple more. It was up at the top end and rather than sitting as I would normally I found myself standing up . . .  and realised the possible relevance of the innate position I'd adopted.
    With the elbow wedged upon the frame of the instrument, the only possible forces are horizontal
    Here the only possible forces arise from wrist and fingers, there being no other muscles involved.
    Here the wrest pins were stiff so I wasn't worried about leverage from the top of the tuning shank onto the pin but in other positions often I'll hold the handle differently and apply an opposing force at the front of the lever to that at the back so as to enhance the rotational vs lateral force ratio.
    When teaching students who come to me I'm advocating this tight control of the lever and care to adopt posture to achieve it. How many others give importance to this?
    Best wishes
    David P


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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
    +44 1342 850594
    "High Definition" Tuning
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  • 2.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2024 15:51

    Hi David:

    I nearly always tune standing, either verticals or grands.  I feel I have more control and it seems more ergonomic.  If I use an impact hammer on verticals, then of course I'll be sitting.  I will often use my thumb on a strut while I'm tuning, maybe pulling on it to provide more control.  Since I usually tune with the tuning lever handle parallel to the strings and facing towards the back of the piano, it would be nearly impossible from a sitting position.  In the higher sections of a grand with the capo, I switch to a 1:30-2:00 angle, so I could easier sit and do that section. 

    As we get older, it's more important to pay attention to what our body is telling us.  If it doesn't feel right, make some changes.  A lot of us are having back problems, so if you're getting sore take a little break and straighten your back out.  Sometimes we arch our back for long periods of time, and the nerves coming out of our spine get pinched.  I'll often change sitting for standing, to give some relief if I'm not feeling comfortable.  The shoulder is another problem for us, and reaching out and turning tight pins can create extra strain.  Gotta be mindful..



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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  • 3.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Posted 02-19-2024 11:52
    Proper flexing of the pin can keep the wire from going beyond the target pitch. Bob Davis the tech at UOP for 40 years showed us how keeping the pin flexed allows you to turn the pin without dragging the back scale sharp. Susan Kline has said Bob's tunings were set in cement. 
    I have seen Bob tune standing. With the hammer handle at 12, it;s easier to tune standing on some pianos. I'm a little tall and lanky with skinny wrists and large hands. He is stocky and thicker bones. Standing sometimes requires me to stoop and the back doesn't like that.





  • 4.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-20-2024 01:00
      |   view attached

    Whether you stand or sit may depend on how tall you are.

    I used to stand until I really started thinking about improving my test blows, and found that by sitting, I could use my thumb and first two fingers to strike the keys. That spreads out the force, which results in less trauma to the fingers. Additionally, I found that by sitting, I could raise my left arm and let the weight of the arm make the blow. By contrast, when standing, I find myself pushing downwards (and with just two fingers because of the angle) instead of using arm weight. I've found much more effective test blows this way, with less effort and less wear and tear on my fingers.



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    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
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  • 5.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Posted 02-20-2024 09:30

    Oh man... It's hard for me to conceive of standing up while tuning a grand piano! What a back killer 😬 Not to mention loss of control. The only pianos I stand up for are the old uprights and I charge more to tune them. I remember in piano tuning school my teacher tuned standing up. It wasn't something he taught, it's just the way he did it because he was so short. It's one of the things I like about tuning spinets. I can sit comfortably. Don't get me wrong, if it works for you to stand up, don't let me stand in your way (pun intended  😏 😉).



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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    www.thattuningguy.com
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  • 6.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2024 01:57

    I have a strong and personal opinion on this subject.

    Many years ago I developed sciatica.  It was quit painful and debilitating.  At the time I was teaching, spending as much as 6 to 8 hours sitting at a desk grading papers and writing course materials, but also tuning and doing a lot of bike training for an up-coming long ride.

    When every book in the bookstores prescribed similar advice, advice that seemed to be making my problem worse I took it upon myself to find the problem and fix it.

    I was teaching medical physiology, so I decided to look at the problem logically.  Sitting at a spinet, sitting at a desk and sitting on a bike all put your back in a similar bent posture.  With the spine curved forward in a typical sitting position your disks are stressed into a wedge shape.  In that position and shape they eventully bulge outward... and into your spinal cord (the cauda equina in the lower lumbar area).  Any stretching exercises in the forward direction tends to increase the stress on disks; and this is just what almost every back book (written by distinguished medical professionals) was recommending.

    I stopped sitting. I bought several ergonomic kneeling chairs, set my car seat back a couple of notches, learned to sleep straight, redesigned my bike to be more upright and started tuning standing whenever possible (I try to avoid spinets).

    This was about 27 years ago, and since then I have not had any serious back trouble.  I do occasionally feel a twinge of sciatica, but this is always due to too many spinets or spending time in regular chairs.

    I am not saying that this is the magic cure for all back problems, but I still can't find many medical books recommending that you avoid sitting (the Mayo Clinic did recommend not sitting, but mostly because of inactivity) and most of the people with serious back trouble I know have spent careers sitting in chairs.

    I have been very lucky not to have any repetive stress issues with tuning (I regularly use my own artificial finger/thumper/key pounder) and I believe that most problems can be reasoned out and solved with a bit of common sense.

    And PLEASE, use ear protection!



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    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
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  • 7.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2024 09:05

    Blaine, 

    👍 👍 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 8.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Posted 02-21-2024 09:47
    You stated the problem Bliane. 
    The problem is "typical sitting position" 
    Americans don't know how to sit. I teach yoga. 
     A bad hip to spine alignment with an added twist will F*** your spine every time.   
    People bend forward, doing those stretches you say wedge the spine, and you are right. They bend from the waist and the hips move forwards until the hamstrings stop them. This moves all the forward bending into the lower spine creating a tug of war. Hamstrings vs L5 and lower back. The hamstrings will always win. 
    You must bend forwards at the top of the thighs. I tell students to lean forward from the belly button. Soften the knees as much as needed. The upper body will only pull your spine off the sacrum 
    As you lean forwards, maintain a slight backwards arch and you will feel the hamstrings before you get the upper body parallel to the ground. Soften the knees and place the hands on the thighs.
    Increase the back bend as you try and straighten the legs. This creates an isometric hamstring stretch. Very powerful. 
    When you stretch the hamstrings, you are able to rotate the hips to vertical and the spine stacks from the sitz bones naturally into the lumbar. Now it's ok to twist. 
    If your hips are tilted backwards, when you twist, you drive L5 off the sacrum or whatever lumbar is the weakest.
    LEARN TO SIT PROPERLY. 
    Please







  • 9.  RE: Posture for tuning grands - sitting or standing?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2024 20:10

    Keith,

    Simple back exercises help.  It is important to remember that exercise will only create an improvement in strength for about a week, after that your muscles deteriorate back to the lowest level where daily activities become your exercise. We are in constant states of healing and growing from exercise and deteriorating from lack of it, nothing is stable.

    Personally, rather than complex exercises I prefer to avoid sitting (note that I am "sitting" as I write this and I might spend several hours at my computer, but I am using an ergonomic kneeling chair and my own back easily tolerates this).  I do sit through the treble section of most grand pianos, but I usually stand through the bass and tenor.  A little stress is a good thing.  Lots of long term stress is not.



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    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
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