Pianotech

  • 1.  Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 15:16

    Afternoon,

    I have a number of clients on the island of Maui where humidity is a major factor. I have a Steinway M client that is having chronic issues with jack tails coming unglued from the jack stem (These are the 2 part rascals). As I only get there once a year I was considering replacing the reps with WNG's which should eliminate that problem and have no issues related to humidity. I have used a few sets of the WNG hammer shanks/flanges but not had any experience with the reps. Would love any input on the pros & cons from someone who has experience in working with this product.

    Thanks in Advance

    Dan McElrath



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    Dan McElrath RPT
    Biloxi MS
    (228) 351-9551
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  • 2.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 15:58
    Greetings,
       I have used a lot of them.  I like them. However, it is not uncommon to find the let-off buttons need to be replaced when used in a Steinway, and if you are mixing them with conventional shanks, you may also need to add an additional thickness of leather to the drop pads as well as removing some felt from the stop pads in the mortise.  They will also take 100 hours of play to settle into a stable compaction of their felt.  That can be accelerated by several days in the shop with a weighted rod laid across the hammershanks so that the felt can be compacted faster.  Spacing and traveling can't be done with normal paper tape, ( I use a metallic HVAC tape that is .004" thick).  All in all, you are looking at $1,000 in parts and easily 5 or six hours of labor.  

    If the only reason to use them is broken jack tails, I would try to address the tails.  Is there excessive aftertouch or too short a blow, or overly thick back-stop felt, the jacks might be trapped and overly stressed.  If the glue joint is suspect it would be faster to remove all the whips, break the joints that can be broken and reglue  them, (also a good time to check your repetition lever pinning, spring polishing, and lubing the grub).  

    Humidity sufficiently high to cause jack joints to loosen, there would be far more problems elsewhere in the piano.  I don't know if the glue used in the last 20 years is actually hide glue, and if not, humidity is not the problem.  
    regards, 


     






  • 3.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 23:51

    Thanks Ed and everyone who responded to my question, all responses are excellent fuel for thought. I mentioned the humidity issue not because I think necessarily the glue is failing due to humidity only that if the glue is failing and I am going to consider replacing the reps that maybe WNG's might be a solid alternative in such a climate. All of your suggestions are good and valid points but this is not the first time I have run into this problem with 2 part jacks and I don't want to leave an inferior product in the piano if I can replace it with a better product. Hence my request. Glue failure, whatever the cause, is not a problem I want to leave my client with if I can find a more stable alternative :)



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    Dan McElrath RPT
    Biloxi MS
    (228) 351-9551
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Posted 03-12-2023 15:59

    I'm not fond of them myself. Here is a video in which i found a flaw that was pretty much not allowing me to regulate them. Plus, not shown in the video, is that i later replaced the rep springs because WNG springs were much too stiff. I was told i had an earlier generation of wips, in which they fixed the issue i found,but the spring issue still is a problem i've been told.

    -chris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c7iNTYfJ5E



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    Chernobieff Piano Restorations
    "Where Tone is Key, and Mammoths are not extinct."
    865-986-7720 (text only please)
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  • 5.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 16:57

    I had a similar concerns replacing parts for a Steinway in Havana.   Humidity challenges are similar to Hawaii.  They dimensionally they were perfect.  Low CP friction is something to check.   Still working beautifully after 6 years and counting.   

    The only unusual issue I've had with WNG reps was many years ago.  I was working and teaching with Anne Garee at FSU.  We were trying to regulate a very early set of WNG wippens.  The rep spring would have a proper rise upon release from the check but the jack would not go back under the knuckle at rest no matter what we did.  We got the wippen to regulate after adding 2grams to the scale #8 hammer.  This was not a solution!    We found that the wire was very stiff by comparison to typical modern reps.  Replacing the spring with a lighter wire solved the issue.  We called WNG to give feedback.    That set may have been from some of their first production and the issue was set right early on.    Indeed this is a general design consideration... that the rep springs wires match the hammer weight levels.   If one is using extra light hammers  (scale #5 or lower) this is something to consider if you see that symptom. 



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    David Stanwood RPT
    Stanwood Piano Innovations Inc.
    West Tisbury MA
    (508) 693-1583
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  • 6.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 18:30

    The one S&S in which I've run into this issue was built in the early 70's and the problem was glue failure. Ed's suggestion of repairing the jacks seems the most efficient. Actually, they can be tested and reglued in the piano. Tails that haven't failed yet can probably be repaired preemptively by applying a drop of thin CA glue. But rest assured, in time they will all go if left unattended.



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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Member
    Posted 03-12-2023 21:30

    Ditto  .... use thin CA Glue to bond the toe to the leg of the jack but make sure them toes are seated fully.. Be careful that the glue does not drip on the keys so cover the keys. You could use medium CA but thin will find its way better Do them all not just loose ones



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Pros & Cons of WNG Reps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2023 21:58

    I would reiterate what Ed said in that jack stress from another source (one that should not be there) is likely the jack-breaker rather than just high humidity. Very little stress on that joint when everything is operating as designed. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message