Pianotech

 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 6/30/2022 11:29:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Hi James:
Regulating the lift tray(s) on this model is a little tricky.  If you make the lift of the tenor/treble tray too high, the pitman for the bass tray will come out of its hole, and perhaps jam.  The pin for the bass pitman cannot be too long because it will hit the underside of the tray (inside the rail itself) and make scraping noises.  That limits the upward movement of the tray in the bass before the pitman pin comes out.  That may be why the tenor/treble tray doesn't move the dampers high enough because it has to be adjusted like that.  If the tenor/treble dampers don't clear the strings, you'll have to trim the damper felt so it doesn't sit so deeply into the strings.  Whether there's excess "lost motion" in the pedal or not is a separate issue, because the actual lift of the damper tray is limited to the length of the bass pitman pin.  If your underlever has a stop to limit the travel (capstan or felt block), there will have to be  limited pedal movement, like some felt inside the pedal box to prevent the pedal from moving too far down.  Or you'll have to live with more lost motion in the pedal system than you'd like.

I hope the above is clearer than mud.
Good luck!

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

I've never seen a pitman about the size of a hammer shank. I'd bring along the fixings to make a new one with a larger dowel. Was the pitman for the bass sustain the same diameter?
You would probably have noticed if the pivot pin for the lever that the pedal rod pushes had worked itself out on one side or if the lever is cracked, but it's worth a double check.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 00:58
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

Hi James:
Regulating the lift tray(s) on this model is a little tricky.  If you make the lift of the tenor/treble tray too high, the pitman for the bass tray will come out of its hole, and perhaps jam.  The pin for the bass pitman cannot be too long because it will hit the underside of the tray (inside the rail itself) and make scraping noises.  That limits the upward movement of the tray in the bass before the pitman pin comes out.  That may be why the tenor/treble tray doesn't move the dampers high enough because it has to be adjusted like that.  If the tenor/treble dampers don't clear the strings, you'll have to trim the damper felt so it doesn't sit so deeply into the strings.  Whether there's excess "lost motion" in the pedal or not is a separate issue, because the actual lift of the damper tray is limited to the length of the bass pitman pin.  If your underlever has a stop to limit the travel (capstan or felt block), there will have to be  limited pedal movement, like some felt inside the pedal box to prevent the pedal from moving too far down.  Or you'll have to live with more lost motion in the pedal system than you'd like.

I hope the above is clearer than mud.
Good luck!

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

There is another possibility that the rubber grommet in the lift tray is missing.  A small hammer-shank would fit in the hole and make it work, somehow.  As was suggested by Steven, the current pitman doesn't sound original.  A hammer-shank is too small to insert a pin into.  What may have happened is the original was lost in a move, and a tech may have tried to fashion a new one without knowing the original length, and/or didn't have enough time or a proper dowel and pin to recreate what was there.  What you describe is exactly what would happen if the pitman was too short.  And if the grommet is missing, you'll have to create something to take its place like a piece of leather to cover the large hole (about 1/4").  Or get a new grommet.   If you can lift the tray by hand and everything works, you know it's not the tray pivots.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Sounds like PMS. Pitman was lost in the move.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 05:46
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

There is another possibility that the rubber grommet in the lift tray is missing.  A small hammer-shank would fit in the hole and make it work, somehow.  As was suggested by Steven, the current pitman doesn't sound original.  A hammer-shank is too small to insert a pin into.  What may have happened is the original was lost in a move, and a tech may have tried to fashion a new one without knowing the original length, and/or didn't have enough time or a proper dowel and pin to recreate what was there.  What you describe is exactly what would happen if the pitman was too short.  And if the grommet is missing, you'll have to create something to take its place like a piece of leather to cover the large hole (about 1/4").  Or get a new grommet.   If you can lift the tray by hand and everything works, you know it's not the tray pivots.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Gentleman   all excellent suggestions that will really help. It could be one or more of these things. Fortunately I have an Edwards action caddy so I can get the action out and moved to the side. Another one of those piano placements done in a corner of the room looking into the room. I am trying to save my hands , arms and back by not lifting actions . I wish I had bought that cart years ago- I got one autographed by LaRoy.....

Anyway I will through this beast from bottom to top. I think the player never noticed because the dampers in the tenor/treble clear the strings just enough but you have to mash the pedal down. Some people never notice this as long as they get a response.

This piano had issues about 7 years ago when action centers kept seizing randomly. I did 3 callbacks within a week because the piano was to be used for a dine around fund raiser with a hired pianist. Every time I went back the problem was with notes I had not treated. I made pencil notes on the hammer flanges A0 had only a 1/2 swing using the swing test. after protek treatment swings went to 6. Yesterday it was between 5 and 6. All of the ones I treated in 2015 that had 1/2 to 1 1/2 swings where still at 5 to 6.. I took some hammers home and popped center pins out and all where size 21 and silver, no obvious score marks or plating issues. Susan Kline commented to me they may have been replaced by another tech under warranty since the standard pin was size 20 . Does anyone have experience or re-collection when the seizing pin flu was an issue with YC and associated brands, This is a Samick SG-140

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 09:42
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

Sounds like PMS. Pitman was lost in the move.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 05:46
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

There is another possibility that the rubber grommet in the lift tray is missing.  A small hammer-shank would fit in the hole and make it work, somehow.  As was suggested by Steven, the current pitman doesn't sound original.  A hammer-shank is too small to insert a pin into.  What may have happened is the original was lost in a move, and a tech may have tried to fashion a new one without knowing the original length, and/or didn't have enough time or a proper dowel and pin to recreate what was there.  What you describe is exactly what would happen if the pitman was too short.  And if the grommet is missing, you'll have to create something to take its place like a piece of leather to cover the large hole (about 1/4").  Or get a new grommet.   If you can lift the tray by hand and everything works, you know it's not the tray pivots.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

This is an update on the Samick damper tray lift problem. As Paul suggested the rubber grommet on the underside of the lift tray was missing. Actually there was rubber inside the hole in the tray. To compensate for the missing rubber I added 3 cardboard balance pin punchings. The real cause of the lift failure was down below at the end of the damper pedal rod. The grommet in the pedal cup was completely split, dried out and repeated mashing down forced the rod to settle at the bottom of the cup. I used a screwdriver and exacto knife to scrape out all of what was left in the cup which was small pieces of dried rubber and fine powder. The new rubber cap I had was put on the damper rod tip . I also adjusted the adjustment nut on top of the pedal rod. The damper lift at that point worked perfectly - both the bass dampers and tenor/mid/treble dampers worked perfectly with good clearance. When released all damper equipped strings shut down..

For the future where does one get the grommets for the lift tray ?

BTW- I was wrong about the thickness and length of the pitman. It was the same thickness as the middle pedal dowel that lifts bass dampers.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 10:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

Gentleman   all excellent suggestions that will really help. It could be one or more of these things. Fortunately I have an Edwards action caddy so I can get the action out and moved to the side. Another one of those piano placements done in a corner of the room looking into the room. I am trying to save my hands , arms and back by not lifting actions . I wish I had bought that cart years ago- I got one autographed by LaRoy.....

Anyway I will through this beast from bottom to top. I think the player never noticed because the dampers in the tenor/treble clear the strings just enough but you have to mash the pedal down. Some people never notice this as long as they get a response.

This piano had issues about 7 years ago when action centers kept seizing randomly. I did 3 callbacks within a week because the piano was to be used for a dine around fund raiser with a hired pianist. Every time I went back the problem was with notes I had not treated. I made pencil notes on the hammer flanges A0 had only a 1/2 swing using the swing test. after protek treatment swings went to 6. Yesterday it was between 5 and 6. All of the ones I treated in 2015 that had 1/2 to 1 1/2 swings where still at 5 to 6.. I took some hammers home and popped center pins out and all where size 21 and silver, no obvious score marks or plating issues. Susan Kline commented to me they may have been replaced by another tech under warranty since the standard pin was size 20 . Does anyone have experience or re-collection when the seizing pin flu was an issue with YC and associated brands, This is a Samick SG-140

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 09:42
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

Sounds like PMS. Pitman was lost in the move.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292

Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2022 05:46
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift

There is another possibility that the rubber grommet in the lift tray is missing.  A small hammer-shank would fit in the hole and make it work, somehow.  As was suggested by Steven, the current pitman doesn't sound original.  A hammer-shank is too small to insert a pin into.  What may have happened is the original was lost in a move, and a tech may have tried to fashion a new one without knowing the original length, and/or didn't have enough time or a proper dowel and pin to recreate what was there.  What you describe is exactly what would happen if the pitman was too short.  And if the grommet is missing, you'll have to create something to take its place like a piece of leather to cover the large hole (about 1/4").  Or get a new grommet.   If you can lift the tray by hand and everything works, you know it's not the tray pivots.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2022 23:28
From: James Kelly
Subject: Samick Grand SG140 damper tray lift


 I saw this piano today and have to return to clean it and do some other things. The damper pedal had quite a bit of lost motion before it lifted the dampers and then only lifted them a small amount in the tenor and midrange. Hardly any damper lift in the bass but the left pedal lifted all the bass dampers the right amount. I adjusted the nut on top of the pedal rod to take out slack but very little changed. I noticed that the pitman looked about as big as a vertical shank so maybe it does not have the bulk it needs or perhaps there is a missing spring on the tray or in the trap work lever works. The lift tray is made of aluminum with a split that overlaps at the bass end. As I said the left pedal works well to lift the bass dampers. Maybe something is broken /binding on the longer tray. Need a fix that will work to get clearance on all dampers when the damper/sustain is engaged. Perhaps the flange or pinning on the tray has failed or needs repair/replacement ? I once had to do a fix on the damper lift tray on a Yamaha on a cruise ship . I was not even the ship tech just a passenger that told someone what I did for a living. I jerry rigged the tray using piano wire found under the piano and tools borrowed from the casino repair shop. That place was tool heaven with a row of craftsmen tool cabinets about 50 yards long and every tool in the catalog.  I offered to stay on the ship and fix every piano for their turnaround cruise that was going to be 2 weeks long.... didnt get the gig but they did give me and Mrs K a private dining room table for 2 steak dinner

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------