Pianotech

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"PTG - Expand your Horizon. Share the Vision"
"Promoting Quality Service for the World's Pianos"
"Good, Better, Best. Never let it rest. 'Til the good is better, and the better best."

George W.R. "Bill Davis", RPT
2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE
Marietta GA 30066-2113
CP: 770-778-6881
bill@pianoplace.net
www.pianoplace.net
------------------------------

Hi George:
I would suggest (aside from getting another piano) is to bite the bullet and remove a few stickers from the keys.  See if the keys themselves are free, and probably they will be.  Pull up on a sticker and see if it's hard to make it play.  If pulling up on the stickers is difficult, you're going to have to pull the action anyway to find out what's going on.  If the action seems ok by pulling the stickers, you've eliminated everything else- it's the grommets!  Once I tried doing a favor for an old woman whose piano needed the lost motion adjusted.  As I turned the screws on the stickers, somehow the hard grommets tilted the keys enough to cause them to stick and get sluggish.  Especially the keys with big dog-legs.  Replace a few grommets and see if things get better. 
Another possibility is the bridal tapes (bridle?) and wires.  I'm not sure on a Whitney, but some Baldwins had wires with a sort of curly-cue on the end.  Not the triangle you usually see.  Those Baldwin wires allow the tapes to side down further on the wires, which makes it very hard to play the notes.  I usually put a spot of glue on them to prevent them from sliding down again. 
If the client can't afford to have you remove the action, maybe it's not an affordable hobby for them.  Or better to replace it with another one that actually works.  But, you knew that already.
Good luck.  Have fun!

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
------------------------------

It’s “bridle”, Paul. There’s no wedding here.

Giddyup,

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 11:10:00 AM
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

Hi George:
I would suggest (aside from getting another piano) is to bite the bullet and remove a few stickers from the keys.  See if the keys themselves are free, and probably they will be.  Pull up on a sticker and see if it's hard to make it play.  If pulling up on the stickers is difficult, you're going to have to pull the action anyway to find out what's going on.  If the action seems ok by pulling the stickers, you've eliminated everything else- it's the grommets!  Once I tried doing a favor for an old woman whose piano needed the lost motion adjusted.  As I turned the screws on the stickers, somehow the hard grommets tilted the keys enough to cause them to stick and get sluggish.  Especially the keys with big dog-legs.  Replace a few grommets and see if things get better. 
Another possibility is the bridal tapes (bridle?) and wires.  I'm not sure on a Whitney, but some Baldwins had wires with a sort of curly-cue on the end.  Not the triangle you usually see.  Those Baldwin wires allow the tapes to side down further on the wires, which makes it very hard to play the notes.  I usually put a spot of glue on them to prevent them from sliding down again. 
If the client can't afford to have you remove the action, maybe it's not an affordable hobby for them.  Or better to replace it with another one that actually works.  But, you knew that already.
Good luck.  Have fun!

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
------------------------------

Maybe you shoul change to Kale?

It's a Whitney spinet. Perform the last rites and move on! :D

But, since you asked...could it be something fallen in the action? Either a pencil in the stickers, or some stiff paper in the hammer butts? That would quickly explain why it's worse above C6. If I saw this piano, I'd explain to the owner that it would take significant work to be able to diagnose the problem. IOW, you'd need to replace the grommets and do key easing just to be able to do any of the normal diagnostic work.

I had a similar conversation about a Baldwin Hamilton with sluggish keys. I thought the problem was most likely in the key sticks, but explained to the customer that the only way to accurately diagnose was to address the excess key friction first, then see what friction remained. So I vacuumed out the mouse debris, cleaned the balance pins, and sized all the bushings with a soldering iron broach, but there was still excess friction in the action centers. I explained to the owner that, while I was absolutely certain I could fix the friction problem, it was uncertain just how much that would cost. I didn't recommend we continue. She took my advice, paid me, and I went on to the next appointment.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 3:37:00 PM
From: John Formsma
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

It's a Whitney spinet. Perform the last rites and move on! :D

But, since you asked...could it be something fallen in the action? Either a pencil in the stickers, or some stiff paper in the hammer butts? That would quickly explain why it's worse above C6. If I saw this piano, I'd explain to the owner that it would take significant work to be able to diagnose the problem. IOW, you'd need to replace the grommets and do key easing just to be able to do any of the normal diagnostic work.

I had a similar conversation about a Baldwin Hamilton with sluggish keys. I thought the problem was most likely in the key sticks, but explained to the customer that the only way to accurately diagnose was to address the excess key friction first, then see what friction remained. So I vacuumed out the mouse debris, cleaned the balance pins, and sized all the bushings with a soldering iron broach, but there was still excess friction in the action centers. I explained to the owner that, while I was absolutely certain I could fix the friction problem, it was uncertain just how much that would cost. I didn't recommend we continue. She took my advice, paid me, and I went on to the next appointment.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman
------------------------------

I have not seen a spinach action but seen plenty of those drop actions with key end forks dried out grommets. I would suggest having a handful of new grommets, cutting off some of the dried ones and seeing if things change. At the same time the wire is off take out the keys and examine the keypins for rust, corrosion, test the keyfit and ease bushings and balance pin hole. A strong light from below the action may reveal an object wedged across multiple notes. Perhaps someone pulled the action in the past and it is not seated properly on the action bolts. I have had some actions with the wires not attached to the right key causing key jams. I am sure the problem is fixable just requires some detective work. Although it is a pain it is not so hard to get the action out if you secure the wires and are careful to clear the dampers .
There is also the possibility of a dead mouse, mouse droppings, fur balls, coins etc jamming up the keys

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-04-2022 16:04
From: George W. R. Davis
Subject: Spinet puzzler

John

Essentially the conversation I had. Impossible to really know what was going on without pulling the action and that required replacing all the grommets. 

BTW there were no common, first glance fixes like pencils and paper stuck in the action. 

Perhaps some other ideas out there. I thought about spoons in damper lever felt which might have been true, but doesn't explain upper treble unless that is all springs. 

I did take a quick gander at the let off rail-it seemed to be in right location but I'm not sure how I would know exactly. Screws were not loose which only affirms the rail was probably in same place as factory set it. 

 

http://bit.ly/Schedule_My_Piano

 

"Good, better, best; never let it rest, 'til the good is better and better best!"

"Providing quality service for the world's pianos"

 

George W.R. "Bill" Davis, RPT

The Piano Place GA

2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE

Marietta GA 30066

www.pianoplace.net

bill@pianoplace.net

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 3:37:00 PM
From: John Formsma
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

It's a Whitney spinet. Perform the last rites and move on! :D

But, since you asked...could it be something fallen in the action? Either a pencil in the stickers, or some stiff paper in the hammer butts? That would quickly explain why it's worse above C6. If I saw this piano, I'd explain to the owner that it would take significant work to be able to diagnose the problem. IOW, you'd need to replace the grommets and do key easing just to be able to do any of the normal diagnostic work.

I had a similar conversation about a Baldwin Hamilton with sluggish keys. I thought the problem was most likely in the key sticks, but explained to the customer that the only way to accurately diagnose was to address the excess key friction first, then see what friction remained. So I vacuumed out the mouse debris, cleaned the balance pins, and sized all the bushings with a soldering iron broach, but there was still excess friction in the action centers. I explained to the owner that, while I was absolutely certain I could fix the friction problem, it was uncertain just how much that would cost. I didn't recommend we continue. She took my advice, paid me, and I went on to the next appointment.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 4:05:00 PM
From: George W. R. Davis
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

John

Essentially the conversation I had. Impossible to really know what was going on without pulling the action and that required replacing all the grommets. 

BTW there were no common, first glance fixes like pencils and paper stuck in the action. 

Perhaps some other ideas out there. I thought about spoons in damper lever felt which might have been true, but doesn't explain upper treble unless that is all springs. 

I did take a quick gander at the let off rail-it seemed to be in right location but I'm not sure how I would know exactly. Screws were not loose which only affirms the rail was probably in same place as factory set it. 

 

http://bit.ly/Schedule_My_Piano

 

"Good, better, best; never let it rest, 'til the good is better and better best!"

"Providing quality service for the world's pianos"

 

George W.R. "Bill" Davis, RPT

The Piano Place GA

2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE

Marietta GA 30066

www.pianoplace.net

bill@pianoplace.net

Sent from my iPhone

If you routinely carry a bag of grommets with you, (I will sometimes use one to mute off a string I have just replaced), you can progress a little farther down the path of a one note sample diagnosis. You can eliminate (or confirm) the grommet and the key as sources of friction with almost no time lost. Has anybody said anything about checking for the hammer flange as a source of friction?  I am dealing with that in a piano right now.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd RPT
Regina SK
(306) 502-9103
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-04-2022 23:26
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet puzzler

Has it been spray lubricated? If the oil in the spray turned gummy that might slow things down.

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 4:05:00 PM
From: George W. R. Davis
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

John

Essentially the conversation I had. Impossible to really know what was going on without pulling the action and that required replacing all the grommets. 

BTW there were no common, first glance fixes like pencils and paper stuck in the action. 

Perhaps some other ideas out there. I thought about spoons in damper lever felt which might have been true, but doesn't explain upper treble unless that is all springs. 

I did take a quick gander at the let off rail-it seemed to be in right location but I'm not sure how I would know exactly. Screws were not loose which only affirms the rail was probably in same place as factory set it. 

 

http://bit.ly/Schedule_My_Piano

 

"Good, better, best; never let it rest, 'til the good is better and better best!"

"Providing quality service for the world's pianos"

 

George W.R. "Bill" Davis, RPT

The Piano Place GA

2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE

Marietta GA 30066

www.pianoplace.net

bill@pianoplace.net

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 3:37:00 PM
From: John Formsma
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

It's a Whitney spinet. Perform the last rites and move on! :D

But, since you asked...could it be something fallen in the action? Either a pencil in the stickers, or some stiff paper in the hammer butts? That would quickly explain why it's worse above C6. If I saw this piano, I'd explain to the owner that it would take significant work to be able to diagnose the problem. IOW, you'd need to replace the grommets and do key easing just to be able to do any of the normal diagnostic work.

I had a similar conversation about a Baldwin Hamilton with sluggish keys. I thought the problem was most likely in the key sticks, but explained to the customer that the only way to accurately diagnose was to address the excess key friction first, then see what friction remained. So I vacuumed out the mouse debris, cleaned the balance pins, and sized all the bushings with a soldering iron broach, but there was still excess friction in the action centers. I explained to the owner that, while I was absolutely certain I could fix the friction problem, it was uncertain just how much that would cost. I didn't recommend we continue. She took my advice, paid me, and I went on to the next appointment.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman
------------------------------

I must agree with John F. It was a nothing piano to begin with and should receive a heavy dose of tranquilizer and put it out of it's misery. 

The ONLY exception would be is if they have money to burn and just HAVE to keep this thing. Otherwise...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-05-2022 00:16
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Spinet puzzler

If you routinely carry a bag of grommets with you, (I will sometimes use one to mute off a string I have just replaced), you can progress a little farther down the path of a one note sample diagnosis. You can eliminate (or confirm) the grommet and the key as sources of friction with almost no time lost. Has anybody said anything about checking for the hammer flange as a source of friction?  I am dealing with that in a piano right now.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd RPT
Regina SK
(306) 502-9103
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-04-2022 23:26
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Spinet puzzler

Has it been spray lubricated? If the oil in the spray turned gummy that might slow things down.

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 4:05:00 PM
From: George W. R. Davis
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

John

Essentially the conversation I had. Impossible to really know what was going on without pulling the action and that required replacing all the grommets. 

BTW there were no common, first glance fixes like pencils and paper stuck in the action. 

Perhaps some other ideas out there. I thought about spoons in damper lever felt which might have been true, but doesn't explain upper treble unless that is all springs. 

I did take a quick gander at the let off rail-it seemed to be in right location but I'm not sure how I would know exactly. Screws were not loose which only affirms the rail was probably in same place as factory set it. 

 

http://bit.ly/Schedule_My_Piano

 

"Good, better, best; never let it rest, 'til the good is better and better best!"

"Providing quality service for the world's pianos"

 

George W.R. "Bill" Davis, RPT

The Piano Place GA

2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE

Marietta GA 30066

www.pianoplace.net

bill@pianoplace.net

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message:
Sent: 7/4/2022 3:37:00 PM
From: John Formsma
Subject: RE: Spinet puzzler

It's a Whitney spinet. Perform the last rites and move on! :D

But, since you asked...could it be something fallen in the action? Either a pencil in the stickers, or some stiff paper in the hammer butts? That would quickly explain why it's worse above C6. If I saw this piano, I'd explain to the owner that it would take significant work to be able to diagnose the problem. IOW, you'd need to replace the grommets and do key easing just to be able to do any of the normal diagnostic work.

I had a similar conversation about a Baldwin Hamilton with sluggish keys. I thought the problem was most likely in the key sticks, but explained to the customer that the only way to accurately diagnose was to address the excess key friction first, then see what friction remained. So I vacuumed out the mouse debris, cleaned the balance pins, and sized all the bushings with a soldering iron broach, but there was still excess friction in the action centers. I explained to the owner that, while I was absolutely certain I could fix the friction problem, it was uncertain just how much that would cost. I didn't recommend we continue. She took my advice, paid me, and I went on to the next appointment.

------------------------------
John Formsma
New Albany MS

"Sneak up on optimal."
--Ron Nossaman