Pianotech

Hello all,

I am servicing a 1986 Steinway D whose front rail knocks prominently at the bass and a bit st the treble even when the glide bolts are all the way up. The gap in the front rail in the bass is prominent enough that I don't love the idea of sanding off a huge amount of material. Do folks ever sand the bottom of the cheekblocks or shim the keyframe locator holes down so that the cheekblocks push down the keyframe. Or should I just bite the bullet and sand down the front of the keyframe?

Thanks,

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
------------------------------

Thanks, Wim. I've tried all those things. I ended up talking to Steinway directly about it and they suggested ordering new cheekblock plates, as the problem is likely that the original plates have worn down. I was quite impressed by how responsive Steinway's service team was! Now we'll see how expensive and/or difficult getting the parts will be.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 16:24
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Peter.

If there is a gap between the front rail and the keybed, then you don't want to sand even more off the front rail. 

If the front rail is knocking even with the cheek block screwed down, then you want to lower the cheek block so that the block will force the rail down. 

Before you do that, however, make sure of two things. One, that someone else didn't add a piece of veneer or punchings to the bottom of the cheek block to prevent it from going down all the way. Or, that the pin coming out of the action frame isn't bent. You may also try to unscrew the glide brass guide on the cheek block and see if you can lower that just a bit. 

Wim

At a seminar I attended, a Steinway representative suggested removing that bronze plate from the keyblock (AKA cheekblock) and peening just above the cutout area that contacts the keyframe endpin, to migrate the contact surface downwards. It may be the kind of design born of wariness of the notion that "if they can adjust it, they will adjust it" (even if it don't need messing with), and therefore not the most convenient way of making this important adjustment. Nevertheless, it certainly can work.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 18:55
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Thanks, Wim. I've tried all those things. I ended up talking to Steinway directly about it and they suggested ordering new cheekblock plates, as the problem is likely that the original plates have worn down. I was quite impressed by how responsive Steinway's service team was! Now we'll see how expensive and/or difficult getting the parts will be.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 16:24
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Peter.

If there is a gap between the front rail and the keybed, then you don't want to sand even more off the front rail. 

If the front rail is knocking even with the cheek block screwed down, then you want to lower the cheek block so that the block will force the rail down. 

Before you do that, however, make sure of two things. One, that someone else didn't add a piece of veneer or punchings to the bottom of the cheek block to prevent it from going down all the way. Or, that the pin coming out of the action frame isn't bent. You may also try to unscrew the glide brass guide on the cheek block and see if you can lower that just a bit. 

Wim

I second Alan’s suggestion. I have sone this numerous times with success.


Joe Wiencek


Original Message:
Sent: 2/10/2025 7:27:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: RE: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

At a seminar I attended, a Steinway representative suggested removing that bronze plate from the keyblock (AKA cheekblock) and peening just above the cutout area that contacts the keyframe endpin, to migrate the contact surface downwards. It may be the kind of design born of wariness of the notion that "if they can adjust it, they will adjust it" (even if it don't need messing with), and therefore not the most convenient way of making this important adjustment. Nevertheless, it certainly can work.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 18:55
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Thanks, Wim. I've tried all those things. I ended up talking to Steinway directly about it and they suggested ordering new cheekblock plates, as the problem is likely that the original plates have worn down. I was quite impressed by how responsive Steinway's service team was! Now we'll see how expensive and/or difficult getting the parts will be.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
------------------------------

The Steinway keyframe and keybed are slightly curved against one another, touching in the middle and leaving gaps at each end, so that the norm is to pull the front rail down at each end to eliminate any knocking anywhere. It is rare to find knocking other than at the ends in Steinway grands. New instruments have the Hamburg plate design, which is adjustable.

The (old) Steinway method of adjustment has to do with peeling layers of the card stock that is glued to the front of the bottom of the blocks in the factory. Once you have removed all vestiges of that card stock, the plates can be removed and peened, as Alan wrote: put it on a solid surface (and anvil is best) and place an awl at various points along the surface by the bearing surface. Hammer little dents into the brass. It will generally be enough to take up the slack.

Another possibility is that it is the guide pins in the key frame that have either worn or become loose due to crushing of the wood that holds them. The pin can often be turned 90 degrees or so to present a new surface to the plate. If the wood can become loose, that would present a somewhat challenging repair depending on the exact nature of the problem.

The problem is often seasonal, and swelling of wood makes the interface tight and crushes wood, while shrinking exposes the gap that has been created by the crushing. It can be wise in a concert hall situation (where you see the instrument often) to check the tightness of the block screws periodically. They will tend to become very tight under humid conditions, hard to turn and impeding free shift movement. A sight loosening of the screws will help avoid crushing of wood.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 18:55
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Thanks, Wim. I've tried all those things. I ended up talking to Steinway directly about it and they suggested ordering new cheekblock plates, as the problem is likely that the original plates have worn down. I was quite impressed by how responsive Steinway's service team was! Now we'll see how expensive and/or difficult getting the parts will be.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 16:24
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Peter.

If there is a gap between the front rail and the keybed, then you don't want to sand even more off the front rail. 

If the front rail is knocking even with the cheek block screwed down, then you want to lower the cheek block so that the block will force the rail down. 

Before you do that, however, make sure of two things. One, that someone else didn't add a piece of veneer or punchings to the bottom of the cheek block to prevent it from going down all the way. Or, that the pin coming out of the action frame isn't bent. You may also try to unscrew the glide brass guide on the cheek block and see if you can lower that just a bit. 

Wim

Peter,

I have very often seen shims above that plate against the wood for this very purpose. Of course if it's already shimmed and still a problem then the next step would be the peening as described. 

I'm guessing though that there has been HEAVY shift pedal activity on this instrument if the thing is worn as much as you say. If you can compare the identical piece from a less used SS it might tell you something. If they appear absolutely identical then it may not because wear issue bit something else. If it does appear comparatively worn then that would justify getting a new replacement. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 20:02
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

The Steinway keyframe and keybed are slightly curved against one another, touching in the middle and leaving gaps at each end, so that the norm is to pull the front rail down at each end to eliminate any knocking anywhere. It is rare to find knocking other than at the ends in Steinway grands. New instruments have the Hamburg plate design, which is adjustable.

The (old) Steinway method of adjustment has to do with peeling layers of the card stock that is glued to the front of the bottom of the blocks in the factory. Once you have removed all vestiges of that card stock, the plates can be removed and peened, as Alan wrote: put it on a solid surface (and anvil is best) and place an awl at various points along the surface by the bearing surface. Hammer little dents into the brass. It will generally be enough to take up the slack.

Another possibility is that it is the guide pins in the key frame that have either worn or become loose due to crushing of the wood that holds them. The pin can often be turned 90 degrees or so to present a new surface to the plate. If the wood can become loose, that would present a somewhat challenging repair depending on the exact nature of the problem.

The problem is often seasonal, and swelling of wood makes the interface tight and crushes wood, while shrinking exposes the gap that has been created by the crushing. It can be wise in a concert hall situation (where you see the instrument often) to check the tightness of the block screws periodically. They will tend to become very tight under humid conditions, hard to turn and impeding free shift movement. A sight loosening of the screws will help avoid crushing of wood.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 18:55
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Thanks, Wim. I've tried all those things. I ended up talking to Steinway directly about it and they suggested ordering new cheekblock plates, as the problem is likely that the original plates have worn down. I was quite impressed by how responsive Steinway's service team was! Now we'll see how expensive and/or difficult getting the parts will be.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
(250) 562-5358
ps@pspianos.com


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2025 16:24
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Steinway D Knocking Front Rail

Peter.

If there is a gap between the front rail and the keybed, then you don't want to sand even more off the front rail. 

If the front rail is knocking even with the cheek block screwed down, then you want to lower the cheek block so that the block will force the rail down. 

Before you do that, however, make sure of two things. One, that someone else didn't add a piece of veneer or punchings to the bottom of the cheek block to prevent it from going down all the way. Or, that the pin coming out of the action frame isn't bent. You may also try to unscrew the glide brass guide on the cheek block and see if you can lower that just a bit. 

Wim

Mr Stevenson,

Is the instrument from New York or Hamburg?

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

The old style New York Steinway keyblock plate (Steinway part number 009025, sold for $17 each as of the 2024 parts department price list) is made of phosphor bronze with a distinct inner profile designed to provide minimal contact while applying the appropriate amount of downward pressure on the keyframe pin. Since the plate is bronze and the pin is steel, the plate will gradually wear flat as the action shifts.

Since the action is shifted from a location that is off-center on the keyframe, the side to side shifting of the action also introduces a rotational force which over time can cause the sides of the plate to wear as well.  Because of the forces involved, the top of the plate will wear much faster than the sides.

An often overlooked part of this design is a strip of 1/32" red vulcanized fiberboard (Steinway part number 007999.  Sold in sheets of 25" x 40" for $58 as of the 2024 parts department price list) under the front of the keyblock.  This strip of fiberboard is designed to be removed in layers if necessary to accommodate the gradual wear on the plate.

When the the fiberboard is completely removed, and the plates are worn to the point where they still don't provide adequate downward pressure on the ends of the keyframe, it is best to simply replace the plate and also add a new strip of 1/32" red vulcanized fiberboard. 

Since the screw holes are in a fixed location, shimming the top of the plate is usually a poor option because the keyblock plate screws (Steinway part number 008278. Sold in quantites of 12 for $14 as of the 2024 parts department price list) will no longer line up with the screw holes in the maple keyblock.

Attached are some engineering drawings of the plate to get an idea of the design as I've described.

------------------------------
Daniel DeBiasio
Technical Education & Support
ddebiasio@steinway.com
718-267-3229
Steinway & Sons
------------------------------