Pianotech

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 


------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Yes the corrosion seems to be a result of an interaction between the wire and the felt.
Two things come to mind: Moisture and/or chemicals in the felt
 Moisture from a water spill could have been held in the felt. This will trigger rust.
If there is a chemical residue in the felt, such as metallic salts, (either from processing the fibers or from the dying) the strings can also corrode without any undue moisture added.

I doubt there is a remedy sort of restringing. If you do this, be sure to replace the string bearing cloth with a better quality one.

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 20:42
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Moisture from high humidity conditions , room close to a river or lake and windows left open, flooding ... I had a grand piano with half a dozen broken strings at the hitch pin loop where is sat on a felt punching. House was located on a river bank and owner was in the habit of keeping windows open to let in cool night air. In the process the open window was sucking out air conditioned air and letting in high humidity air. It is not unusual for us to have 99% rh in the early morning. Felt sucks up moisture like a sponge . While you are at it check the glue on the hammers to see if it is failing and the felt is peeling like a banana.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 22:47
From: Jurgen Goering
Subject: strange string corrosion

Yes the corrosion seems to be a result of an interaction between the wire and the felt.
Two things come to mind: Moisture and/or chemicals in the felt
 Moisture from a water spill could have been held in the felt. This will trigger rust.
If there is a chemical residue in the felt, such as metallic salts, (either from processing the fibers or from the dying) the strings can also corrode without any undue moisture added.

I doubt there is a remedy sort of restringing. If you do this, be sure to replace the string bearing cloth with a better quality one.

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 20:42
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

I do not agree with the idea that felt or other materials such as a sheet, blanket etc make for a good string cover. 100 % wool is superior and will absorb moisture and water for a bit of time. It will also do a great job of holding dust, dirt and debris. A Kawai grand was saved from being a total loss by a 100% woolen cover I purchased from Dawson String Cover. The drain for a bathtub on the floor above the piano had failed and water poured all over the lid of the Kawai directly below. The owner opened the lid and found that the string cover had collected a puddle of water in the area over the bass strings, tuning pins and soundboard. Absolutely no moisture got to the action, pinblock and just a little reached the bass cheek block .

I am currently working with a customer who has a Boston Grand right on the ocean. Even though the temperature seems comfortable the humidity readings are in the high 60s low 70's . I am going to collect more info 24x7 with a data logger but the truth is these homes are exposed to all sorts of good and bad weather, moisture laden air, air currents. She is ordering a cover because it will absorb the excess moisture that would otherwise settle on the strings. In addition she will be using a dehumidifier in a corner of the room.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-17-2022 09:27
From: Gary Messling
Subject: strange string corrosion

Fleece repels water (I wear my fleece jacket in the rain!) Seems that should be OK for a string cover.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

I don’t think fleece is pure felt.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 9:28:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Fleece repels water (I wear my fleece jacket in the rain!) Seems that should be OK for a string cover.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:12:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I don’t think fleece is pure felt.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 9:28:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Fleece repels water (I wear my fleece jacket in the rain!) Seems that should be OK for a string cover.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

OK. So you want to use use fleece as a string cover. Good idea.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:24:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Wim,

It's pure polyester.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:12:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I don’t think fleece is pure felt.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 9:28:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Fleece repels water (I wear my fleece jacket in the rain!) Seems that should be OK for a string cover.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Actually, one of my customers made her own. I’m pretty sure she just figured it out on her own and didn’t even know a string cover "was a thing”. She just bought fleece from a fabric store and cut it to size, no battens or fancy colored stitching around the border. It seems to work fine.


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:35:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

OK. So you want to use use fleece as a string cover. Good idea.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:24:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Wim,

It's pure polyester.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 10:12:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I don’t think fleece is pure felt.

Wim.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 9/17/2022 9:28:00 AM
From: Gary Messling
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

Fleece repels water (I wear my fleece jacket in the rain!) Seems that should be OK for a string cover.

Original Message:
Sent: 9/16/2022 3:58:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: strange string corrosion

I have always felt that felt is the wrong material to use for string covers. In my opinion, felt absorbs moisture when the humidity is high, and then releases it later when the humidity is low. 

I've always bought string covers with a nylon blend with cotton. I get mine from Guye at Instrument Covers.  guye@pianocovers.net.

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Mouse urine?


Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com


Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

It sounds like a job for Jon Page’s Counter Bearing Lube, Timothy.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.  
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing? 

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Thanks Robert.   I tried some of the old "Garfield Center Pin Lube"  (ether and naptha).  No help.
I then tried some CLP.  Again, no results. 
Not sure lubricants will do the job here, but in any case, where can I purchase this "Counter Bearing Lube"?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2022 08:39
From: Robert Anderson
Subject: strange string corrosion

It sounds like a job for Jon Page's Counter Bearing Lube, Timothy.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Onestring is already broken and I would suspect the others are compromised and weakened. New strings and new felt would be in order as well as tracking down the real cause if that is even possible. Examine the strings under a bright light and magnifying glass or even zoom in with an ipad camera. pitting and scaling will stand out...

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2022 17:18
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Thanks Robert.   I tried some of the old "Garfield Center Pin Lube"  (ether and naptha).  No help.
I then tried some CLP.  Again, no results.
Not sure lubricants will do the job here, but in any case, where can I purchase this "Counter Bearing Lube"?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2022 08:39
From: Robert Anderson
Subject: strange string corrosion

It sounds like a job for Jon Page's Counter Bearing Lube, Timothy.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message:
Sent: 9/15/2022 8:42:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Tim,
These pictures are a bit inadequate as they don't show the rest of the piano.  You might suspect rodent urine as I have found that rat urine is quite corrosive.  The somewhat spotty nature of the corrosion in your pictures suggest irregular application of rodent urine.  The black debris might be roach feces, implying that this piano was in a very dirty and neglected environment.
There is no cure for this except restringing.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 795-5170
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 20:42
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------

Look at the end of the broken wire and you'll see that it is thoroughly corroded. No amount of lubricant will help. CBL is good, it would have helped to prevent this corrosion many years ago but it wasn't around then. Use it now on other pianos to protect the bearing surfaces. Contact me for purchasing details

Something was placed on the felt to cause this localized corrosion. It must have been someone's bright idea.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 20:42
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: strange string corrosion

Baldwin D  195282 ---  severe corrosion (or something) on bass strings --- ONLY where they contact the felt.  Treble strings not showing the same condition.
Does not appear to be normal rust.   Is this some kind of chemical reaction between the felt and the strings?  If so, why wouldn't it also affect the treble strings?   Had to FORCE strings to drop in pitch.  Could not raise back to pitch without breaking strings.  Any remedies short of restringing?

------------------------------
Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
------------------------------