Pianotech

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

David,

Thanks for your input.

Cleaning up unisons and reading what's left of the previous tuning sounds like it would introduce a layer of possible measurement error into the data. That is why I am trying to transcribe the VT info into iRCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:40
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perhaps tidying up the existing tuning by ear, putting unisons right, finding the accordance where two of three strings are find and one is off but checking the octaves to make sure that the one off is the one that needs to be corrected is the start.

That might result in a good enough tuning for the moment or, having done that, analyse that tuning with the Cybertuning and see what settings result in the closest fit to the existing tuning.

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I use a VT and have thought about this quandary. I suppose if you ask the VT tuner how many cents sharp his VT places C8, you can extrapolate your stretch to emulate his.  When tuning a rented grand, I've found many ETD users (SAT ?) placed C8 at +60c. Wicked Shahp (as they say in Boston).

My custom VT stretch places C8 in the +30~40 cents range. It all depends on the upper harmonics of the lower notes. I've had pianos where the 8P on C5 was +62c.
and 2P on C7 was +60c. So I balance the proportioning of partial sampling in the upper treble between a 4:1 and 3:1.

Maybe he uses Kent Swafford's P12. The VT has 3 built-In adjustable stretches (Styles) with about 7 custom Styles developed by users.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:56
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

David,

Thanks for your input.

Cleaning up unisons and reading what's left of the previous tuning sounds like it would introduce a layer of possible measurement error into the data. That is why I am trying to transcribe the VT info into iRCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:40
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perhaps tidying up the existing tuning by ear, putting unisons right, finding the accordance where two of three strings are find and one is off but checking the octaves to make sure that the one off is the one that needs to be corrected is the start.

That might result in a good enough tuning for the moment or, having done that, analyse that tuning with the Cybertuning and see what settings result in the closest fit to the existing tuning.

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Jon,

"Wicked shahp" indeed!

My colleague tells me that he uses the Koval stretch on his Verituner. (Any idea which Octave Tuning Style on RCT that approximates most closesly?) The first question I asked was how many cents sharp C8 was in the tuning file he uses. He could not readily answer that a couple of days ago, but seems to have since figured it out.

If all else fails, I have considered measuring the piano with Cybertuner and try rendering tunings in various Octave Tuning Styles until I find the one that most closely approximates what is there. (This piano gets tuned for every usage, usually a couple of time per week.) Still, I would prefer to exactly replicate the tuning he is using.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 06:19
From: Jon Page
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

I use a VT and have thought about this quandary. I suppose if you ask the VT tuner how many cents sharp his VT places C8, you can extrapolate your stretch to emulate his.  When tuning a rented grand, I've found many ETD users (SAT ?) placed C8 at +60c. Wicked Shahp (as they say in Boston).

My custom VT stretch places C8 in the +30~40 cents range. It all depends on the upper harmonics of the lower notes. I've had pianos where the 8P on C5 was +62c.
and 2P on C7 was +60c. So I balance the proportioning of partial sampling in the upper treble between a 4:1 and 3:1.

Maybe he uses Kent Swafford's P12. The VT has 3 built-In adjustable stretches (Styles) with about 7 custom Styles developed by users.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:56
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

David,

Thanks for your input.

Cleaning up unisons and reading what's left of the previous tuning sounds like it would introduce a layer of possible measurement error into the data. That is why I am trying to transcribe the VT info into iRCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:40
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perhaps tidying up the existing tuning by ear, putting unisons right, finding the accordance where two of three strings are find and one is off but checking the octaves to make sure that the one off is the one that needs to be corrected is the start.

That might result in a good enough tuning for the moment or, having done that, analyse that tuning with the Cybertuning and see what settings result in the closest fit to the existing tuning.

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Isn't there a Swafford P12 option now?.. but it's been decades since I used RCT. Kent's, Jon Page's and my style all end up pretty close to each other, with variations imposed via the different apps and slightly different choices of intervals to weight.

If the piano has a decent scale, taking just a few samples like RCT does should provide a representative inharmonicity progression. I would say try to match the A's across the scale and not worry too much about C8 where the curve is increasing rapidly.

Ron Koval


------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:11
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Jon,

"Wicked shahp" indeed!

My colleague tells me that he uses the Koval stretch on his Verituner. (Any idea which Octave Tuning Style on RCT that approximates most closesly?) The first question I asked was how many cents sharp C8 was in the tuning file he uses. He could not readily answer that a couple of days ago, but seems to have since figured it out.

If all else fails, I have considered measuring the piano with Cybertuner and try rendering tunings in various Octave Tuning Styles until I find the one that most closely approximates what is there. (This piano gets tuned for every usage, usually a couple of time per week.) Still, I would prefer to exactly replicate the tuning he is using.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 06:19
From: Jon Page
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

I use a VT and have thought about this quandary. I suppose if you ask the VT tuner how many cents sharp his VT places C8, you can extrapolate your stretch to emulate his.  When tuning a rented grand, I've found many ETD users (SAT ?) placed C8 at +60c. Wicked Shahp (as they say in Boston).

My custom VT stretch places C8 in the +30~40 cents range. It all depends on the upper harmonics of the lower notes. I've had pianos where the 8P on C5 was +62c.
and 2P on C7 was +60c. So I balance the proportioning of partial sampling in the upper treble between a 4:1 and 3:1.

Maybe he uses Kent Swafford's P12. The VT has 3 built-In adjustable stretches (Styles) with about 7 custom Styles developed by users.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:56
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

David,

Thanks for your input.

Cleaning up unisons and reading what's left of the previous tuning sounds like it would introduce a layer of possible measurement error into the data. That is why I am trying to transcribe the VT info into iRCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:40
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perhaps tidying up the existing tuning by ear, putting unisons right, finding the accordance where two of three strings are find and one is off but checking the octaves to make sure that the one off is the one that needs to be corrected is the start.

That might result in a good enough tuning for the moment or, having done that, analyse that tuning with the Cybertuning and see what settings result in the closest fit to the existing tuning.

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Good idea, Ron. 

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 14:06
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Isn't there a Swafford P12 option now?.. but it's been decades since I used RCT. Kent's, Jon Page's and my style all end up pretty close to each other, with variations imposed via the different apps and slightly different choices of intervals to weight.

If the piano has a decent scale, taking just a few samples like RCT does should provide a representative inharmonicity progression. I would say try to match the A's across the scale and not worry too much about C8 where the curve is increasing rapidly.

Ron Koval


------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:11
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Jon,

"Wicked shahp" indeed!

My colleague tells me that he uses the Koval stretch on his Verituner. (Any idea which Octave Tuning Style on RCT that approximates most closesly?) The first question I asked was how many cents sharp C8 was in the tuning file he uses. He could not readily answer that a couple of days ago, but seems to have since figured it out.

If all else fails, I have considered measuring the piano with Cybertuner and try rendering tunings in various Octave Tuning Styles until I find the one that most closely approximates what is there. (This piano gets tuned for every usage, usually a couple of time per week.) Still, I would prefer to exactly replicate the tuning he is using.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 06:19
From: Jon Page
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

I use a VT and have thought about this quandary. I suppose if you ask the VT tuner how many cents sharp his VT places C8, you can extrapolate your stretch to emulate his.  When tuning a rented grand, I've found many ETD users (SAT ?) placed C8 at +60c. Wicked Shahp (as they say in Boston).

My custom VT stretch places C8 in the +30~40 cents range. It all depends on the upper harmonics of the lower notes. I've had pianos where the 8P on C5 was +62c.
and 2P on C7 was +60c. So I balance the proportioning of partial sampling in the upper treble between a 4:1 and 3:1.

Maybe he uses Kent Swafford's P12. The VT has 3 built-In adjustable stretches (Styles) with about 7 custom Styles developed by users.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:56
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

David,

Thanks for your input.

Cleaning up unisons and reading what's left of the previous tuning sounds like it would introduce a layer of possible measurement error into the data. That is why I am trying to transcribe the VT info into iRCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:40
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perhaps tidying up the existing tuning by ear, putting unisons right, finding the accordance where two of three strings are find and one is off but checking the octaves to make sure that the one off is the one that needs to be corrected is the start.

That might result in a good enough tuning for the moment or, having done that, analyse that tuning with the Cybertuning and see what settings result in the closest fit to the existing tuning.

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/23/2022 5:25:00 AM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Would it be possible for you to borrow his VT, or both of you to switch devices for the day? It's kind of a worst case scenario, but if it's only a one time deal it could possibly work.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:17
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Benjamin, 

I have never tuned with Verituner before, have limited time each day with the subject piano, and will be covering for my colleague for over a month. Within that time, someone else will be covering for me. They also use Cybertuner. So if I can translate the tuning to RCT, it won't just be for me or for a single tuning.

Thanks, 

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:40
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Would it be possible for you to borrow his VT, or both of you to switch devices for the day? It's kind of a worst case scenario, but if it's only a one time deal it could possibly work.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:17
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Using 2 iPods, I did some P12 tunings with Veritune and iRCT side by side and the differences seemed pretty minimal. Perhaps you could sit in on a tuning with the other tuner and set up your machine accordingly. Not sure exactly how to do that with the iRCT, as Jon mentions, you can record a tuning with VT.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:49
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Benjamin,

I have never tuned with Verituner before, have limited time each day with the subject piano, and will be covering for my colleague for over a month. Within that time, someone else will be covering for me. They also use Cybertuner. So if I can translate the tuning to RCT, it won't just be for me or for a single tuning.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:40
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Would it be possible for you to borrow his VT, or both of you to switch devices for the day? It's kind of a worst case scenario, but if it's only a one time deal it could possibly work.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:17
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Oops, thought you said he was using P12.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 15:26
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Using 2 iPods, I did some P12 tunings with Veritune and iRCT side by side and the differences seemed pretty minimal. Perhaps you could sit in on a tuning with the other tuner and set up your machine accordingly. Not sure exactly how to do that with the iRCT, as Jon mentions, you can record a tuning with VT.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:49
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Benjamin,

I have never tuned with Verituner before, have limited time each day with the subject piano, and will be covering for my colleague for over a month. Within that time, someone else will be covering for me. They also use Cybertuner. So if I can translate the tuning to RCT, it won't just be for me or for a single tuning.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:40
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Would it be possible for you to borrow his VT, or both of you to switch devices for the day? It's kind of a worst case scenario, but if it's only a one time deal it could possibly work.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:17
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

On the VT, in Fine Mode; you can select any note. and it will display the 1st partial placement. The other tuner could write down how many cents sharp the Style places the A's..

You could always select an average stretch and sample across the keyboard and make corrections or select another stretch.  It's all pretty much irrelevant because they all sound good and you'll not be changing anything that drastically to require a pitch correction.

The worse that can come of it is that the venue likes your stretch better. Or they can't wait to get the other guy back...:-)

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 09:17
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Ron,

Thanks for this insight. I will pass it on to him, and hope that the opportunity for him to do as you describe before handling this gig over to me in the next couple of days.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 08:05
From: Ron Koval
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

If the other tech is willing to take the extra step of measuring the tuning after finishing  - the Verituner is able to do that using the specific partials of the PTG tuning test. (measure mode) Then the numbers could be shared to you.
The tuning targets displayed in fine mode showing multiple partials are that - targets, not specific values where the pitch will land once tuned. Multiple partials are listed for each note, except from C7-C8. In my experience, they should be close to the actual pitch if the measuring done for that piano was careful, but not as accurate as using measure mode.

Either method would require the current tech to transcribe from each note to send to you.

Ron Koval

------------------------------
Ron Koval
Chicagoland
rontuner@hotmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file. 

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Hi Alan

I have recently done the procedure that Ron describes in reply number 8. For years I have designed tunings for important pianos using Steve Fairchild's FATE system, which designs an EQ 12th using 76 stretch measurements, which can then be downloaded to my SAT.  I recently acquired Verituner and wanted to compare the FATE tunings with the Swafford Pure 12th. After designing a tuning in each for the same piano, I went through the Verituner note by note and entered the tuning, using the same partials as Steve's into the software. When I retuned the piano using my SAT with the Verituner partials I could detect no difference aurally between that tuning and the Verituner version. I was able to graph the tunings from both systems also. I assume you could do this with an RCT, or if you have an SAT and Tuning Manager you could enter the partial values in TM, which you can do from Excel, and download to your SAT. Your friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you. It's simpler than it sounds and really doesn't take a lot of time.

Regards

Craig Miller
​

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your input.

I am curious to know what Steve Fairchild's FATE tuning system is, and what "EQ 12th" means (although that might be best addressed in a separate thread).

You mentioned that, "[My] friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you." Maybe I am missing something here, but if VT used the cents deviation of a single partial, it would be straightforward enough to (manually) transcribe from VT to RCT. (We have done this going between RCT and SAT many times, in both directions.) The stumbling block, as I understand it, is that VT uses multiple partials which it then weights according to certain priorities. So, how to translate that for RCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 08:23
From: Craig Miller
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan

I have recently done the procedure that Ron describes in reply number 8. For years I have designed tunings for important pianos using Steve Fairchild's FATE system, which designs an EQ 12th using 76 stretch measurements, which can then be downloaded to my SAT.  I recently acquired Verituner and wanted to compare the FATE tunings with the Swafford Pure 12th. After designing a tuning in each for the same piano, I went through the Verituner note by note and entered the tuning, using the same partials as Steve's into the software. When I retuned the piano using my SAT with the Verituner partials I could detect no difference aurally between that tuning and the Verituner version. I was able to graph the tunings from both systems also. I assume you could do this with an RCT, or if you have an SAT and Tuning Manager you could enter the partial values in TM, which you can do from Excel, and download to your SAT. Your friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you. It's simpler than it sounds and really doesn't take a lot of time.

Regards

Craig Miller
​

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

The FATE system was the Fairchild Aural Tuning Emulator, which was a huge spreadsheet designed to produce a tuning in the form of an 88 note temperament, with the beats of each interval type progressing from A0 to C88 as evenly as possible for the scale of the piano. The default tuning was an equal tempered 12th, based on the 19th root of 3 rather than an equal tempered octave based on the 12th root of 2. This was how Steve and his brother learned to tune from their father, who called it "The Violin Temperament." It was written up in the journal at one point. When Jim Coleman heard a tuning designed this way, he coined the term "supertuning" to describe it and said that this was the state of the art in tuning. This was over twenty years ago. Steve never got to the point of creating software that would tune a piano before he got sick. What he created was software that would design a tuning that you would have to transfer somehow to an SAT.

When you look at a note on the Verituner in Fine mode it shows you the cents deviations for each partial of that note. What I did was to take the partials that the
FATE system uses for each note, which mostly are the same as those produced by an FAC tuning, and entered the Verituner deviations for that partial into the SAT using Tuning Manager, which is a tuning management program designed by Reyburn similar to Piano Manager, which downloads tunings into an SAT. I did this entirely as an experiment. It has little practical application. I also tuned a Steinway D using the FATE tuning and then retuned it using the Swafford Pure 12th. There was almost no variation between the two. Very few plain wire strings needed to be changed. The bass of the FATE tuning gradually stretched noticeably lower though. I wish Steve could have  seen this. So if you were to tell your colleague with the Verituner which partial you wanted to know the deviation for, for any given note, you could load it all into Piano Manager and download to an SAT. You may be able to do this with the RCT also, but I am not that familar with it.

I hope this all understandable.

Craig Miller

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:55
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your input.

I am curious to know what Steve Fairchild's FATE tuning system is, and what "EQ 12th" means (although that might be best addressed in a separate thread).

You mentioned that, "[My] friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you." Maybe I am missing something here, but if VT used the cents deviation of a single partial, it would be straightforward enough to (manually) transcribe from VT to RCT. (We have done this going between RCT and SAT many times, in both directions.) The stumbling block, as I understand it, is that VT uses multiple partials which it then weights according to certain priorities. So, how to translate that for RCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 08:23
From: Craig Miller
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan

I have recently done the procedure that Ron describes in reply number 8. For years I have designed tunings for important pianos using Steve Fairchild's FATE system, which designs an EQ 12th using 76 stretch measurements, which can then be downloaded to my SAT.  I recently acquired Verituner and wanted to compare the FATE tunings with the Swafford Pure 12th. After designing a tuning in each for the same piano, I went through the Verituner note by note and entered the tuning, using the same partials as Steve's into the software. When I retuned the piano using my SAT with the Verituner partials I could detect no difference aurally between that tuning and the Verituner version. I was able to graph the tunings from both systems also. I assume you could do this with an RCT, or if you have an SAT and Tuning Manager you could enter the partial values in TM, which you can do from Excel, and download to your SAT. Your friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you. It's simpler than it sounds and really doesn't take a lot of time.

Regards

Craig Miller
​

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Very understandable, Craig. Thanks for taking the time to lay out such a clear explanation.

I had considered selecting either the most most heavily weighted partial from VT, or the partial that I would normally use from RCT, cents deviation for that partial as determined by VT.

Should be interesting when I go to do the first tuning...

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 16:57
From: Craig Miller
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

The FATE system was the Fairchild Aural Tuning Emulator, which was a huge spreadsheet designed to produce a tuning in the form of an 88 note temperament, with the beats of each interval type progressing from A0 to C88 as evenly as possible for the scale of the piano. The default tuning was an equal tempered 12th, based on the 19th root of 3 rather than an equal tempered octave based on the 12th root of 2. This was how Steve and his brother learned to tune from their father, who called it "The Violin Temperament." It was written up in the journal at one point. When Jim Coleman heard a tuning designed this way, he coined the term "supertuning" to describe it and said that this was the state of the art in tuning. This was over twenty years ago. Steve never got to the point of creating software that would tune a piano before he got sick. What he created was software that would design a tuning that you would have to transfer somehow to an SAT.

When you look at a note on the Verituner in Fine mode it shows you the cents deviations for each partial of that note. What I did was to take the partials that the
FATE system uses for each note, which mostly are the same as those produced by an FAC tuning, and entered the Verituner deviations for that partial into the SAT using Tuning Manager, which is a tuning management program designed by Reyburn similar to Piano Manager, which downloads tunings into an SAT. I did this entirely as an experiment. It has little practical application. I also tuned a Steinway D using the FATE tuning and then retuned it using the Swafford Pure 12th. There was almost no variation between the two. Very few plain wire strings needed to be changed. The bass of the FATE tuning gradually stretched noticeably lower though. I wish Steve could have  seen this. So if you were to tell your colleague with the Verituner which partial you wanted to know the deviation for, for any given note, you could load it all into Piano Manager and download to an SAT. You may be able to do this with the RCT also, but I am not that familar with it.

I hope this all understandable.

Craig Miller

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:55
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your input.

I am curious to know what Steve Fairchild's FATE tuning system is, and what "EQ 12th" means (although that might be best addressed in a separate thread).

You mentioned that, "[My] friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you." Maybe I am missing something here, but if VT used the cents deviation of a single partial, it would be straightforward enough to (manually) transcribe from VT to RCT. (We have done this going between RCT and SAT many times, in both directions.) The stumbling block, as I understand it, is that VT uses multiple partials which it then weights according to certain priorities. So, how to translate that for RCT.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 08:23
From: Craig Miller
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan

I have recently done the procedure that Ron describes in reply number 8. For years I have designed tunings for important pianos using Steve Fairchild's FATE system, which designs an EQ 12th using 76 stretch measurements, which can then be downloaded to my SAT.  I recently acquired Verituner and wanted to compare the FATE tunings with the Swafford Pure 12th. After designing a tuning in each for the same piano, I went through the Verituner note by note and entered the tuning, using the same partials as Steve's into the software. When I retuned the piano using my SAT with the Verituner partials I could detect no difference aurally between that tuning and the Verituner version. I was able to graph the tunings from both systems also. I assume you could do this with an RCT, or if you have an SAT and Tuning Manager you could enter the partial values in TM, which you can do from Excel, and download to your SAT. Your friend with the Verituner just needs to notate those partial values in Excel and send it to you. It's simpler than it sounds and really doesn't take a lot of time.

Regards

Craig Miller
​

------------------------------
Craig Miller RPT
Marietta GA
(770) 321-9390

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 6:46:00 AM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Slightly off topic but couldn't resist. PiaTune . . . 

The other week I went to a dinner and my neighbour asked "What do you do?" I replied of course "I tune pianos" to which the response was "My daughter wants to learn piano tuning."

Apparently she has perfect pitch and the music director at her school asks her for a note, which she gives, apparently. (I'm looking forward to measuring it!)

So having perfect pitch she thought she could tune pianos as a summer holiday job . . . 

Her name is . . . Pia!

Clearly https://piatune.com/ needs more investigation.

Best wishes

David P

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 6:46:00 AM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

While off subject with "perfect pitch" I always explain to customers that it is really "perfect relative pitch" in that the gifted ones had to adjust when the  International Pitch Standard changed.

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-26-2022 12:41
From: Richard West
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perfect pitch isn't much of a help for piano tuning. I knew a tuner who had perfect pitch, but he tuned using the standard tuning methods because he knew "perfect" pitch wasn't perfect enough for professional results. He actually tuned a piano for our chapter once using his perfect pitch. Just went through a temperament one note at a time, no checks, just what his perfect pitch ear/brain told him the note should be. It was fairly close, but imperfect. Sort of like this message-imperfectly off topic.

Richard West

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Slightly off topic but couldn't resist. PiaTune . . . 

The other week I went to a dinner and my neighbour asked "What do you do?" I replied of course "I tune pianos" to which the response was "My daughter wants to learn piano tuning."

Apparently she has perfect pitch and the music director at her school asks her for a note, which she gives, apparently. (I'm looking forward to measuring it!)

So having perfect pitch she thought she could tune pianos as a summer holiday job . . . 

Her name is . . . Pia!

Clearly https://piatune.com/ needs more investigation.

Best wishes

David P

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 6:46:00 AM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Alan,

Please do not take this negatively, but this entire scenario seems to me like one of the very best reasons to keep one's analog skills sharp so as not to be dependenton the machine. I am with David P. on this, esp as you suggest in the interest of stability. (Economy of time is another good reason). 

Just my .02  FWIW

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-27-2022 10:24
From: Tremaine Parsons
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

While off subject with "perfect pitch" I always explain to customers that it is really "perfect relative pitch" in that the gifted ones had to adjust when the  International Pitch Standard changed.

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 06-26-2022 12:41
From: Richard West
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perfect pitch isn't much of a help for piano tuning. I knew a tuner who had perfect pitch, but he tuned using the standard tuning methods because he knew "perfect" pitch wasn't perfect enough for professional results. He actually tuned a piano for our chapter once using his perfect pitch. Just went through a temperament one note at a time, no checks, just what his perfect pitch ear/brain told him the note should be. It was fairly close, but imperfect. Sort of like this message-imperfectly off topic.

Richard West

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Slightly off topic but couldn't resist. PiaTune . . . 

The other week I went to a dinner and my neighbour asked "What do you do?" I replied of course "I tune pianos" to which the response was "My daughter wants to learn piano tuning."

Apparently she has perfect pitch and the music director at her school asks her for a note, which she gives, apparently. (I'm looking forward to measuring it!)

So having perfect pitch she thought she could tune pianos as a summer holiday job . . . 

Her name is . . . Pia!

Clearly https://piatune.com/ needs more investigation.

Best wishes

David P

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 6:46:00 AM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Peter,

I wholeheartedly agree about the value of aural tuning skills in the present situation and, for that matter, in ALL tunings.

I feel fortunate to have at my disposal both aural and "cyber" tools to help quickly determine how to get the best sounding tuning and the most stable one, along the lines of what the regular tech does.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-02-2022 08:48
From: Peter Grey
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Alan,

Please do not take this negatively, but this entire scenario seems to me like one of the very best reasons to keep one's analog skills sharp so as not to be dependenton the machine. I am with David P. on this, esp as you suggest in the interest of stability. (Economy of time is another good reason).

Just my .02  FWIW

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-27-2022 10:24
From: Tremaine Parsons
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

While off subject with "perfect pitch" I always explain to customers that it is really "perfect relative pitch" in that the gifted ones had to adjust when the  International Pitch Standard changed.

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 06-26-2022 12:41
From: Richard West
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Perfect pitch isn't much of a help for piano tuning. I knew a tuner who had perfect pitch, but he tuned using the standard tuning methods because he knew "perfect" pitch wasn't perfect enough for professional results. He actually tuned a piano for our chapter once using his perfect pitch. Just went through a temperament one note at a time, no checks, just what his perfect pitch ear/brain told him the note should be. It was fairly close, but imperfect. Sort of like this message-imperfectly off topic.

Richard West

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Slightly off topic but couldn't resist. PiaTune . . . 

The other week I went to a dinner and my neighbour asked "What do you do?" I replied of course "I tune pianos" to which the response was "My daughter wants to learn piano tuning."

Apparently she has perfect pitch and the music director at her school asks her for a note, which she gives, apparently. (I'm looking forward to measuring it!)

So having perfect pitch she thought she could tune pianos as a summer holiday job . . . 

Her name is . . . Pia!

Clearly https://piatune.com/ needs more investigation.

Best wishes

David P

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+44 1342 850594

Original Message:
Sent: 6/26/2022 6:46:00 AM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Kent's P12 is sharper than Ron's 2.7 or my 2.7. Kent's P26 is real close to both. Ron is more familiar with the different platforms.
There is a new one on the market: PiaTune.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 14:45
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Nate,

If this colleague subs for me, we will be doing just as you suggest, going from RCT too "...the other system."

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 06-24-2022 01:14
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Hi Alan,

Best practice recommendation is to tune the piano with CyberTuner, then have your colleague copy the tuning with the other system. :P
Otherwise, the very best way to do this is to get the piano freshly tuned with his system. Then record the piano using Chameleon in CyberTuner and calculate a new tuning. OTS and stretch is largely irrelevant. We're really just getting a baseline at this point. Make sure to save the tuning (Chameleon > Advanced > Name/Save on) into an appropriate file.

Here's the magic. In CyberEar with your new tuning loaded, switch to Fine Tune Mode. Now from A0-C8, record each note onto the tuning file by pressing the left Ear button. Fill in the spinner, then press the Save¢ button.

If you look at the tuning graph after making some progress, you'll see it's no longer a perfect curve series, but rather slightly crooked lines exactly representing the tuning.

------------------------------
http://www.facebook.com/ReyburnPianoTech
http://www.reyburntools.com

Original Message:
Sent: 06-23-2022 05:25
From: Alan Eder
Subject: transcribing a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner

Greetings,

A colleague has asked me to cover for him at a recording studio. He tunes the piano in question with Verituner (which I am unfamiliar with). I regularly use iRCT (aka Cybertuner) and am also conversant with Sanderson Accu-Tuner.

The best way to maintain stability is to routinely tune the same piano to the same temperament, with the same stretch, and at the same pitch. In that interest, I want to replicate his Verituner tuning with Cybertuner. If I understand Verituner correctly, the stumbling block seems to be that it tunes while listening to multiple partials, apportioning different amounts of weight to different partials. iRCT and SAT, on the other hand, tune to a single partial.

So, the question is: How best to transcribe a tuning from Verituner to Cybertuner (or Accu-Tuner, for that matter)?

Anyone out there done this, successfully? In the absence of actual experience, speculation is also of interest.

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------