Pianotech

  • 1.  Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Posted 02-13-2024 13:49

    It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

    The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

    Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

    The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

    The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

    YouTube remove preview
    Tuning a Steinway S last tuned 11 years ago and demonstrating High Definition Unequal Temperament
    "How often do I need to tune my piano?" It depends on the piano . . . and its tuner. I last tuned this lovely Steinway S 11 years ago and you can make up your own mind how good that tuning was.
    View this on YouTube >

     so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

    I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

    As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

    As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

    In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

    Best wishes

    David P



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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
    +44 1342 850594
    "High Definition" Tuning
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  • 2.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-13-2024 14:08

    I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

    Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

    11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

    All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 3.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Posted 02-13-2024 16:15
    Dear Benjamin

    Actually the 11 year stability video is my own and that tuning, I assure you, some 13 years ago or so now, took longer than 1/2 hour :-) In that video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M) I demonstrate how it was on my second visit to Genoa some 11 years after the first visit, the instrument not having been tuned in the intervening period.

    The Facebook post demonstrating a 1/2 hour tuning is an unlisted video and for that reason I have not referenced it here. The tuner concerned elsewhere sports PTG credentials and it would be inappropriate to identify him here unless he'd want to be identified. 

    However, in the original post I've identified the two different approaches to tuning and body position whilst grand tuning and which potentially merit discussion.

    In my opinion the example posted on Facebook doesn't appear to me to be best practice unless I'm significantly mistaken but is important as Facebook has a particularly wide world reach.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594



    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-13-2024 23:02

    Hi David,

    Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-14-2024 12:41

    David,

    First, thank you for the Scarlatti. 

    I have not seen the 30" tuning video--is this a one-pass tuning?



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    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Posted 02-14-2024 14:39

    David, I agree with you that impact tuning, aka jerk tuning, will shorten the life of the pin block. (Others will probably post here who feel otherwise.) When I am discussing pianos with my customers, I often mention how some piano tuners use impact tuning and why I do not.

     

    Your description of the effect of impact tuning is much better than mine, where you say "an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration". Bakeries used to package your purchase in a cardboard box wrapped with a thin cotton string – that they broke with a sharp wrist snap rather than using a pair of scissors – that "proves" your point. Regards, Norman.



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    Norman Brickman
    Potomac Piano Service
    Potomac, Maryland
    potomacpiano@verizon.net
    https://potomacpiano.com
    (301) 983.9321
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Posted 02-14-2024 16:22
    Dear Scott and Norman

    Thanks and hope you enjoy the Scarlatti. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9OAGhzfoKA was another instrument not tuned for 2 1/2 years and demonstrated by the composer conducting https://youtu.be/_52SJEgY2YU?t=6226  - But these videos are a distraction and I assure you, whilst tuning efficiently, took longer than 1/2 hour!

    Doing some Googling I found that the Facebook contributor is actually an RPT and my lone voice in the group in raising issues has probably caused him enough of a red face amongst the Facebook group of which he is an Admin. That I have been apparently disconnected from the group possibly says it all.

    Apart from the apparent lack of care in the tuning inherent in a 30 minute job the video raised two issues, one being impact use and the other being tuning posture when tuning a grand standing up.

    From the photograph chosen by YouTube to represent the video it was apparent that when standing, the shoulder to pin angle is around 45 degrees so that whilst the operator of the lever can make whatever conscious effort not to wobble the pin, the leverage of an arms length over the height of a pin is much greater than when operating the lever from a sitting position parallel to the soundboard plane and therefore giving better control over the lever.

    That an RPT runs a Facebook group encouraging others to tune in his style, and is unable to accept a counter-perspective as a matter of professionalism, to me is worrying and potentially damaging to our reputation.

    Announcing the video the author wrote
    "If you spend too much time tuning, you heat up the wire and what do you think will happen when the wire cools???
    Friction in tuning is an unsightly topic that no one ever talks about.
    Think it through. Learn to pick up your speed and you tunings will last longer, and so will the pinblock.
    This video is designed to help you do just that."

    The reason for my posting here videos of instruments to which I was unable to revisit in years has been to demonstrate in contrast that superfast tuning is not necessary for the purposes of achieving stability.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594



    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2024 08:54
    "Apart from the apparent lack of care in the tuning inherent in a 30 minute job the video raised two issues, one being impact use and the other being tuning posture when tuning a grand standing up."


    I take issue with this statement. As I said before, I know of a few technicians who can tune a piano very quickly, yet very do a very stable job. Just because one is fast does not necessarily mean there's an apparent lack of care. Does anyone remember the late Isaac Sadigurski? That guy regularly tuned more pianos in a day than some techs do in a week - and he was very highly regarded by his peers. 

    Secondly, the impact method is widely used by a lot of different technicians. I use it, and many of our colleagues that I have the utmost respect for do too, and both of our tunings are generally considered very stable. But I will say, it doesn't work well on every piano. Certain brands or models ( certain grands in particular) do not respond well to an impact style of tuning. It's the mark of a good tuner to figure out what works well for that particular piano. 

    Regarding tuning posture, every person is different, and I've known a handful of technicians who stand while tuning, regardless of the piano. Some of them are very stable tuners, others are not - but I don't think it's the standing or sitting that contributed to the result, given the other details I know about said individuals. 

    I remember when I first started tuning pianos. I encountered a technician who gave me tuning advice that was contrary to everything I had heard up until that point. I'm ashamed to say it, but I blew him off and thought quite poorly of him. Over the next few years, I followed up his work on occasion. Every time, he had left a rock solid tuning, sometimes even years later. It was a difficult lesson for me to learn that not everyone has to do things my way. Sometimes, other people do things differently because their way works best for them, or because circumstances demanded it. And that's ok. In fact, it's good. Over the years, I've learned a lot from people who disagree with me - sometimes it's what not to do, while other times it's a new way of doing something. 

    All that to say, I wouldn't judge the individual in question so harshly. There may be a reason behind his methods other than the personal gain you assume. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2024 09:03

    30 minutes is nothing special when compared to the late Steve Fairchild



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    Parker Leigh RPT
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
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    Original Message