Pianotech

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

Hi David,

Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

David,

First, thank you for the Scarlatti. 

I have not seen the 30" tuning video--is this a one-pass tuning?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 23:01
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Hi David,

Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 16:14
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Original Message:
Sent: 2/13/2024 2:08:00 PM
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 13:49
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

------------------------------
David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
+44 1342 850594
"High Definition" Tuning
------------------------------

David,

First, thank you for the Scarlatti. 

I have not seen the 30" tuning video--is this a one-pass tuning?

Hi David,

Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

Original Message:
Sent: 2/14/2024 12:41:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

David,

First, thank you for the Scarlatti. 

I have not seen the 30" tuning video--is this a one-pass tuning?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 23:01
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Hi David,

Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 16:14
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Original Message:
Sent: 2/13/2024 2:08:00 PM
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 13:49
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

------------------------------
David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
+44 1342 850594
"High Definition" Tuning
------------------------------

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-14-2024 16:21
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Original Message:
Sent: 2/14/2024 12:41:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

David,

First, thank you for the Scarlatti. 

I have not seen the 30" tuning video--is this a one-pass tuning?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 23:01
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Hi David,

Apologies for my confusion. I was on my (somewhat short) lunch break and didn't have time to watch the video. I assumed you were talking about the same technician, not two separate individuals. I'll try to watch your video tomorrow if I get a chance. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 16:14
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

Original Message:
Sent: 2/13/2024 2:08:00 PM
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: RE: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

I've known a few tuners / technicians who can tune a piano comfortably and stably in less than 45 minutes. And for every one of those, I've known at least two "tooners" who have no idea what they're doing but can be done in that amount of time. 

Without seeing the piano in person, I'm not necessarily going to doubt the gentleman's claims. It is quite possible he knows exactly what he's doing… or maybe not. Judging stability from an internet video is not impossible, but one may not get the full picture unless he or she can see the piano in person. Certainly it would be impossible to judge long term stability online, especially the 11 year claim he makes.

11 years does seem like a long time, and I do tend to doubt that a little. Remember, though, long term stability is due to more than just tuning technique. An incredibly stable environment is also needed. And, if he came back at just the right time of year, things might actually be close to 440 as the seasons cycle. Additionally, he may not have tuned the piano for 11 years, but that doesn't mean the piano hasn't been tuned in that time. It's possible the owner hired someone else, then for whatever reason reverted back to the gentleman in question - but didn't confess because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

All that to say, there are too many variables at play here to be absolutely certain from this single video. 

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Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 02-13-2024 13:49
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Tuning a piano in 30 minutes, the impact technique and tuning position for Grands

It was with perplexity that on a Facebook group I found a tuner demonstrating how he tunes pianos in 30 minutes in a way that reeked of pride in such achievement. The post was accompanied by an unlisted video and with which I took issue. 

The tuner concerned shows himself tuning from a standing position, so rather bearing down on the tuning lever and the angles of movement of both body and arm or arm and hand appearing in my opinion to be more likely to put forward pressure vertically on the pins, which in principle I don't like even if we say that tendency to wobble a pin doesn't wear the pin block, is a position which inherently gives less control.

Personally I like to sit and with my forearm resting on the front of the instrument move the tuning lever from the static arm by reason of wrist and finger movement giving fine control and ensuring as much torque rather than leverage on the pin by reason of balancing a force at the end of the lever with an opposite force at the nub end. Is this a matter of care or false attention?

The tuner concerned recommends the impact technique for speed and so he says, to minimise the temperature rise of the string. I hadn't considered the latter although when tuning with a machine and doing the unisons so (I do tune unisons by ear but only when I know the instrument is behaving) I'll often tune the central string, then the left and the right by which time the central one has dropped and I have to return to it. Temperature rise . . . ? No idea. Poor setting of the pin? Possibly. If so it's the lesson for the next string. In my opinion an impact is more likely to cause forces on wood fibres to exceed their elastic limit and cause early deterioration, so I'd assume that a conventional continuous movement is both better for the pinblock and if done in one motion without stopping so as to keep the string moving at all times, just as effective as any impact is meant to achieve. 

The tunings I do are rock solid stable, even after 11 years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2ZvjLVF9M

 so there must be something right about what I've been doing for the past 41 years . . . ;-)

I've only had to use an impact technique on one instrument, the Bechstein upright with its patent non-slip agraffes. Using continuous movement tuning on those is quite impossible and perhaps the result is that so many old Bechstein uprights one sees are in need of a new wrestplank and a rebuild.

As tuning is the first and most frequent interaction that an instrument has with the world of the technician, possibly such details are worthy of discussion.

As for speed, some instruments aren't as well behaved as others so two hours might be a luxury but I allow 1 1/2 hours for a good concert tuning often getting through in 75 minutes and even less. The other day I was tuning at the Pleyel showroom and the owner remarked that I'd been faster than he'd experienced with other tuners.

In my view care both for the result and for the instrument trumps speed.

Best wishes

David P

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David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
+44 1342 850594
"High Definition" Tuning
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