Pianotech

  • 1.  Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-04-2023 18:31

    It was great to hear unequal temperament was featured by Bill Bremmer at the Convention.

    In Europe concerts and recordings in unequal temperament have marched forward particularly enjoyably and members might find the following recordings interesting - 

    Steinway B in unequal temperament - experimental concert at London Marylebone Theatre

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    Steinway B in unequal temperament - experimental concert at London Marylebone Theatre
    View this on YouTube >

    This was recorded at the back of the auditorium, not near the instrument where it would have been heard coming to life all the more.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yffLniiZAoc

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    00:00 Introduction 04:06 F. Chopin. 2 Notturni Op.9 No.1 10:08 2 Notturni Op.9 No.1 15:20 F. Liszt. Les jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este 23:31 Introduction to Chopin Polonnaise 28:03 F. Chopin. Polacca op.26 no.2 37:47 Introduction to Liszt reworking of other composers 38:48 F. Liszt. Ständchen 45:34 Introduction to Chopin Mazurkas 47:56 F.
    View this on YouTube >

    Lecture concert with Bechstein Model III in the course of being revoiced.

     Chopin and Liszt - an informal tutorial - historic pianos and unequal temperament performance

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    Chopin and Liszt - an informal tutorial - historic pianos and unequal temperament performance
    An informal recital before dinner . . . The Master compares Liszt and Chopin and talks afterwards about nuances of performance.
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    Bechstein Model III not especially tuned for the concert

    Sonnenlink Viennese dances & Brahms Hungarian dances and Dvorak Piano unequal temperament

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    Sonnenlink Viennese dances & Brahms Hungarian dances and Dvorak Piano unequal temperament
    An evening of music at the Sonnenlink Bio Hotel https://mani-sonnenlink.com/ at Pyrgos near Stoupa in the Mani. The piano is tuned to unequal temperament which brings music to life more and projects in the amphitheatre.
    View this on YouTube >

     Yamaha C3 in unsuitable acoustics - outside in an amphitheatre in Greece - tuning brings resonance which brings extra power and dynamic range

    Equinox Kardamyli - Vintage 4 string Bluthner in unequal temperament - Bach & Grieg

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    Equinox Kardamyli - Vintage 4 string Bluthner in unequal temperament - Bach & Grieg
    A formerly neglected Bluthner now brings musical life and delights to the High Street in Kardamyli at Equinox with pianist and string players wanting to play and perform. Visitors are welcome to come in and practice, here with Bach and Grieg. For tuning elsewhere antespam@gmail.com is the tuner's email address.
    View this on YouTube >

    Four string Bluthner in domestic scale surroundings - a fresh pitch raise led to slight instability.

    Hopefully people might enjoy these recordings and find interest in exploring the colours of unequal temperament tuning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chg8TnpjdGA

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    Unequal Temperament opens up dimensions beyond the norm in performance and rewards pianists for listening to the sound. 00:00:00 Introduction. (This is the piano tuner's recording and IS NOT AN OFFICIAL VIDEO) 00:01:58 Jury. Thanks also to orchestra conductors Luis Saldivia Vega and Nicolas Piel. 00:03:35 Rebecca Cojan 00:05:03 - MOZART Piano Concerto No.
    View this on YouTube >

     is what the tuning can do in battle.

    Of course all these recordings are of a standard which would fail PTG exams so I don't expect anyone to enjoy them at all. :-) 

    Best wishes

    David P



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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
    +44 1342 850594
    "High Definition" Tuning
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  • 2.  RE: Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-08-2023 18:37

    David, very nice.  Thanks for posting it all.  My favorite was probably the duet with the Bluthner, but all were nice.

    Can you elaborate on the "unequal temperament" tuning?  At first I figured you were referring to historic temperaments, like Well or Meantone or Just, but then I realized that such did not appear practical for the given environment.  Too much re-tuning and worrying about wolf intervals and tuning for the proper key and such.  But if it truly was not an equal temperament environment, how did you handle the modulation to different musical keys for the various musical pieces that were played; that is, what (and how much) were your adjustments to equal temperament?  Just curious about the details!  Thanks.

    Regards, Norman 



    ------------------------------
    Norman Brickman
    Potomac Piano Service
    Potomac, Maryland
    potomacpiano@verizon.net
    https://potomacpiano.com
    (301) 983.9321
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  • 3.  RE: Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-08-2023 19:17
    Norman - it's great to hear from you and that someone at least has enjoyed the recordings.

    I use a variation of Kellner. It's taken me a dozen years of research and then half a dozen of perfection to get it right and I'm hoping that perhaps Steinway or Bosendorfer hiring out instruments for concerts might take an interest as it can be transformatory. One pianist for whom I tuned became so excited after his Beethoven Appassionata https://youtu.be/wV3jOOt66kY?t=2458 he actually broke into his concert to talk about the tuning and his ensuing Schumann Arabeske is one of my favourites. 

    Our ears are so blunted by equal temperament that people aren't listening to tuning, nor what it does - but vibrations are the music. It's for this reason that I've gone for the strongest possible tuning that's actually audible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dCQyD57e9M but so that it doesn't offend at the worst and does no damage for music which wasn't obviously written for it indeed such as Brahms and Dvorak such as in the four hands concert. But it's great for Gershwin, Debussy, Ravel and Fauré too . . . 

    Some instruments which are straight strung can tolerate stronger temperaments such as the 1859 Broadwood concert grand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QaW4rrjkd0 tuned to Kirnberger III and the concert pianist for whom I tune in Genoa has a Steinway in my usual tuning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYEStjnncQ and a Bechstein tuned to Kirnberger III which he likes possibly even more. 

    Trying these temperaments tuned normally is a start and you might get good results but which will vary from piano to piano - so have a go. My standardisation across instruments has resulted from a twist to the temperament in the bass as well as another tweak in the middle - but this is only a matter of refinement beyond the first step of tuning unequally in the first place.

    The important thing is whether perhaps you heard a difference or differences in the recordings? For me they're standard but whether anyone else actually hears them is another matter. Certainly up close performers do, and the music can speak with them and it can alter their performance, making it potentially more interesting, more alive - and in my opinion this is what classical music and piano music needs more than ever nowadays. If you didn't hear a difference - that's great! It means that I've done my job producing a more musical tuning with more of a homeopathic subliminal effect. 

    Pretty good photos can be taken nowadays with a mobile phone - like equal temperament - but the real sensitive musicians as pro-photographers will still revert to silver-halide film and a large format camera. Like the latter, the unequal temperament can pull things into focus and contrast with others pushed out of focus. But the true photographer artist might go one stage further https://www.instagram.com/p/CpaogintV0C/ and the tuning can do this for the music. It creates true chromaticism.

    So have a go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JF3YzTG7lU was a basic tuning before work on refinements. No wolfs, no retuning necessary. 

    However 
    A flat major is the key of putrefaction and death - so please do beware. Untamed it can become smelly. With long suffering performers we have done the experiments https://youtu.be/AHAZjcPmtrs?t=2809 and in Meantone one certainly can visit the farmyard and smell the manure, But with a Well Temperament tuning the sound is serene - https://youtu.be/AHAZjcPmtrs?t=1566

    Best wishes and all encouragement

    David P


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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594



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  • 4.  RE: Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-09-2023 11:00

    David, thanks for the clarifications. Very nice. Excuse me here if my lack of musical theory fundamentals is too obvious. A few references that I just looked at on this topic, and which I recommend for others, are:

    https://www.hpschd.nu/tech/tmp/kellner.html and

    https://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/bachtemps.html and

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AwZDdBzi0M .

     

    So what you call "Unequal Temperaments" is what has traditionally been referred to as "Historic Temperaments", and (a variation of) the Kellner Temperament that you favor is one of the many versions of Well Temperament. I already knew that Well Temperaments favor fifths and fourths, but the chart on Kellner at the start of the youtube video that I reference above is interesting. It shows that some of the major thirds (and I presume also M6's, m3's, and m6's) in Kellner are worse than with ET, and a few are quite good. The youtube video (with your tuning) refers to the good intervals as "home keys" and the bad intervals as "distant keys" – you certainly hear a dramatic difference in quality of sound between them. (Being a historic temperament, I presume Kellner is based on the perfect octave.)

     

    In general when working with the large number of historic temperaments, aka non-equal-temperaments, a match-up is desirable between the actual original temperament used in the composition of the piece being played and the temperament that the piano is tuned for. Such as Mozart with the Meantone genre, Bach with the Well Temperament genre, etc. I personally would appreciate having a table that matches a composer with the particular historic temperament(s) that they used for their compositions -- before the industry standardization to ET. But all said, David, your Kellner variant seems to be doing a good job with certain compositions.

     

    I appreciate our industry tuning standard being 12-TET based on the octave; an important and practical decision. It's unfortunate for us acoustic piano tuners that digital pianos, including now the all-digital hybrid piano, let a player instantly choose and adjust the temperament that the piano is tuned for.

     

    Regards, Norman



    ------------------------------
    Norman Brickman
    Potomac Piano Service
    Potomac, Maryland
    potomacpiano@verizon.net
    https://potomacpiano.com
    (301) 983.9321
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-11-2023 18:14
    Dear Norman 

    Your queries are most important and very helpful.

    I spent a misspent youth building an organ and then finding out how to tune it. Of course back in those days we didn't have apps or machines, but it was the early days of historical tuning research catalysed by BIOS - the British Institute of Organ Studies. A book then became available that's now as rare as hen's teeth - "The Well Tempered Organ" by Charles A Padgham. It was in around 2005 listening to a concert of Chopin's 2nd Sonata that the penny dropped that Chopin was using Key specifically musically with the wind whistling over the cold graves and the funeral march in Bb minor and indeed https://wmich.edu/mus-theo/courses/keys.html becomes our bible in the interpretation of the code that the composers to add emotional dimension. So we come to Bb minor . . . "A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key." And there's the funeral march to prove it . . . .

    So in tunings we're looking for solutions that work and in which we can actually _hear_ the affects that the key puts upon the sound as documented at the time. We're looking for schemes which work universally, not requiring retuning from piece to piece but have a broad fit within the language of keys. If we don't hear something then we've got it wrong. Those descriptions were audible, not mere figments of a colourful imagination - and music was not always composed to be nice. Couperin exploited key for instance in meantone to contrast sweet with sour, expressing the joy of Jesus contrasting with the pain that he suffered. Therefore it's quite appropriate to explore music that actually expresses and even causes pain.

    Last weekend I hosted a concert the recording of which I hope will give much pleasure with a pianist who deserves to go far - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfqhL7UaB3Y

    Sadly many unequal temperament demonstrations are not with musicians of this calibre so we miss what it's all about. In the Haydn Sonata in Ab this is the key of putrefaction and death . . . so we must expect to hear something. Using the tuning solution that I apply - Kellner with a twist - it might be easy to overlook what the tuning's doing here in the very worst key, so as a result I have an instrument tuned for musicological research to 1/4 comma Meantone and you'll hear the same piece at the end. 
    so if you didn't hear it the first time, OUCH in the second. But this is a helpful test to attune our ears to what we're listening for and it's helpful to hear the meantone tunings half a dozen times - we say OUCH for lack of familiarity. However, it's clear that Haydn would not have been using 1/4 comma Meantone although for organ Mozart certainly was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebKP9MiGyiI -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdtdgJxezQ

    It's quite likely that Mozart was using 1/6 comma meantone and Erard harps in the 19th century were tuned to 1/8 comma meantone.

    The Pianoteq software https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq is incredibly helpful in this research and very much helps guidance. 1/6 Comma Meantone isn't far in effect from Kellner which is a 1/5th Comma tuning.

    However, I shy away from 1/6 comma meantone as we lose perfect thirds as well as perfect 5ths which are acoustically important. 

    The worst 3rds in Kellner aren't very much worse than Equal Temperament and are shown up only by those which are so very much better although in practice I apply a couple of tricks which makes the tuning more universal. 

    Essentially when approaching the language of keys it doesn't really matter which we choose as long as
    - we can hear the effects and the affects upon the music intended for it
    - it does no damage to music not intended for it
    - the solution includes narrow CC# FF# GAb and wider BC EF F#G as these are responsible for key colour. 

    This rules out the Lehman temperament which is mistaken having turned Bach's cypher upside down. 

    Both Kellner and Kirnberger III obey the criteria, although Kellner more universally.

    When we apply the criteria above we  don't need to match temperaments specifically with composers, although with harpsichord I've tuned Rameau temperament for his work. Finding the example is a challenge but as the precursor to our instrument the harpsichord is experimentally helpful.
    Harpsichord recordings exploring the spectrum of tuning are
    and a nicer instrument still https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa6O1V6aAgE

    Here's concert exploring and comparing Kirnberger III with Meantone tunings - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9i8yeBDQbU

    Apologies for so much listening material here. 

    Finally as far as a tuning goes for being able to express the Baroque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dCQyD57e9M and yet be able to do justice to both Brahms and Dvorak https://youtu.be/RXymuml03pE?t=1338 people for whom I tune enjoy what I do . . . 

    Please experiment! Equal temperament is boring and leads to emotionally boring performance. Temperament isn't a matter merely of academic curiosity - it's a tool that the best musicians want to use.

    Best wishes

    David P







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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594



    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Unequal temperament recordings news

    Posted 09-13-2023 20:49
    Further to responding on Norman Brickman's observation of a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AwZDdBzi0M which he found is actually an instrument which I tuned and voiced at the showroom and the video is a good introduction to the unequal temperament.

    But it's easy to listen to the tuning but not to the music for which tuning exists. Without sensitive musicians with whom to experience music it's difficult to appreciate the value of the difference. As a footnote towards the end of the video I'm not at all convinced by the treble unisons as sounding at the end of the video and that's certainly not as I left it on the day.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594



    Original Message