CAUT

I replaced the H/S/F with Abels on a D in the recital hall. I juiced them a lot with B72, and for the most part the piano professor is happy with the results, except....

She wanted a lot of bass, so that's what she got. I thought I did a great job on 5 & 6, but now she says the bass overpowers the treble. I've got about as much B72 in the killer octaves as I want to give it, so I'm reluctant to add any more. But how can I get more power out of 5&6 without adding more juice?  I've already told her that the solution is to take away some of the power out of the bass, and she's willing to accept that, but I told her I would ask the wisdom of my friends. 

What say ye...

Wim 

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 5/23/2023 9:36:00 PM
From: Susan Kline
Subject: RE: voicing question

Not at all sure what to suggest for the killer octave, but I'd like to hear about your experiences removing B72 when needed. Method? How effective is it? 

<thanks> 

Your only option is softening the bass. You have no wiggle room in the mid treble, plus even if there were wiggle rooom, that's the last place you'd want to try something uncertain. Put a 3/8" let-off in the bass to let her try out a weakened bass section.

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------

Isn't the power control over the bass at her fingertips? Maybe she could learn more control and have the extra bass when needed?

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-23-2023 22:02
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: voicing question

Your only option is softening the bass. You have no wiggle room in the mid treble, plus even if there were wiggle rooom, that's the last place you'd want to try something uncertain. Put a 3/8" let-off in the bass to let her try out a weakened bass section.

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 5/23/2023 10:15:00 PM
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: RE: voicing question

Isn't the power control over the bass at her fingertips? Maybe she could learn more control and have the extra bass when needed?

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Its simply a bad strategy in the first place to use a lot of a hardener, especially B-72. I find just one pass of shellac on the strike point gives each of the bass notes enough distinction. I've ditched B-72 as a way to develop fortissimo in the dynamic range of each hammer because of its softness. One or two drops of sandarac right above the moulding to bring it  up a little if needed.  Now you know why to do the bass last. To bring power down, the only way i've found that works is to needle straight through the strike point to the moulding. Water/alcohol wont work, because using a lot of b72 really starts gumming up the felt. Maybe replacing just the bass hammers is a good option if you cant reverse enough.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
Piano Designer and Maker
Designer of Inertia Touch Wave
865-986-7720 (text only please)
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-23-2023 22:02
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: voicing question

Your only option is softening the bass. You have no wiggle room in the mid treble, plus even if there were wiggle rooom, that's the last place you'd want to try something uncertain. Put a 3/8" let-off in the bass to let her try out a weakened bass section.

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 5/23/2023 10:25:00 PM
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: RE: voicing question

Its simply a bad strategy in the first place to use a lot of a hardener, especially B-72. I find just one pass of shellac on the strike point gives each of the bass notes enough distinction. I've ditched B-72 as a way to develop fortissimo in the dynamic range of each hammer because of its softness. One or two drops of sandarac right above the moulding to bring it  up a little if needed.  Now you know why to do the bass last. To bring power down, the only way i've found that works is to needle straight through the strike point to the moulding. Water/alcohol wont work, because using a lot of b72 really starts gumming up the felt. Maybe replacing just the bass hammers is a good option if you cant reverse enough.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
Piano Designer and Maker
Designer of Inertia Touch Wave
865-986-7720 (text only please)
------------------------------

How much playing time on the hammers?  I assume not much yet.  The hammers will develop but it takes some time. You can try pounding the hammers against a hard wooden block but that can take some time and effort.  Still, my guess is that after some playhing time those hammers might well be too hard.  So I'd quit with the hardeners at this point but I don't think that's the likely problem, or a mistake.  

Concert instruments require instant results and that's unfortunate as a hammer that is allowed to develop is always better but I would probably start to remove some felt in that section, one note at a time (start with the worst one), slowly with a fine polishing up to 1000 grit after each reduction. The filing will accomplish a few things, first it will remove some felt and get you down to harder felt nearer the hammer core, that should add some power. Second it will remove some mass which will reduce hammer string contact time and reduce the hammer's natural damping effect, that should make it a bit brighter.  Third it will move the strike point in a bit toward the capo bar which will also reduce contact time.  

Before you do that I would be sure that your strike point position is optimized, do this by ear by shifting the action in and out at the treble end, keep the bass cheek block in place.  The capo section on some Steinway Ds requires a shift of the strike point sometimes.  

I would not, at this point, try and remove the B72 or switch to a different hardner (like shellac).  I think that would be a mistake and likely make matters worse.  

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Here is something odd I’ve never run across. I’m voicing the bass on this piano, and one note Bb1 is brighter than the other notes around it, but no matter what I do, I can’t get it softer. So I changed the hammer with a note that does sound good, and guess what. The Bb still sounds brassy.

Could it be something in the strings? This is the last tri-chord on the piano.

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message:
Sent: 5/24/2023 12:18:00 PM
From: David Love
Subject: RE: voicing question

How much playing time on the hammers?  I assume not much yet.  The hammers will develop but it takes some time. You can try pounding the hammers against a hard wooden block but that can take some time and effort.  Still, my guess is that after some playhing time those hammers might well be too hard.  So I'd quit with the hardeners at this point but I don't think that's the likely problem, or a mistake.  

Concert instruments require instant results and that's unfortunate as a hammer that is allowed to develop is always better but I would probably start to remove some felt in that section, one note at a time (start with the worst one), slowly with a fine polishing up to 1000 grit after each reduction. The filing will accomplish a few things, first it will remove some felt and get you down to harder felt nearer the hammer core, that should add some power. Second it will remove some mass which will reduce hammer string contact time and reduce the hammer's natural damping effect, that should make it a bit brighter.  Third it will move the strike point in a bit toward the capo bar which will also reduce contact time.  

Before you do that I would be sure that your strike point position is optimized, do this by ear by shifting the action in and out at the treble end, keep the bass cheek block in place.  The capo section on some Steinway Ds requires a shift of the strike point sometimes.  

I would not, at this point, try and remove the B72 or switch to a different hardner (like shellac).  I think that would be a mistake and likely make matters worse.  

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 5/25/2023 9:59:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: voicing question

Here is something odd I’ve never run across. I’m voicing the bass on this piano, and one note Bb1 is brighter than the other notes around it, but no matter what I do, I can’t get it softer. So I changed the hammer with a note that does sound good, and guess what. The Bb still sounds brassy.

Could it be something in the strings? This is the last tri-chord on the piano.

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message:
Sent: 5/25/2023 12:32:00 PM
From: Paul Williams
Subject: RE: voicing question

Hey Wim.

Were the strings replaced on that note recently?

P

Original Message:
Sent: 5/25/2023 9:59:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: voicing question

Here is something odd I’ve never run across. I’m voicing the bass on this piano, and one note Bb1 is brighter than the other notes around it, but no matter what I do, I can’t get it softer. So I changed the hammer with a note that does sound good, and guess what. The Bb still sounds brassy.

Could it be something in the strings? This is the last tri-chord on the piano.

Sent from my iPhone