Pianotech

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

Benjamin-

Try pressing down on the end of the bridge with a screwdriver while paying the note.

If this improves the sound, the problem involves inadequate impedance at the end of the bridge.

If so, there are ways to improve this. One of the easiest is to wedge a rolled up sock under the soundboard, between the end of the bridge and a nearby cross brace.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 12:56
From: Benjamin Webster
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Webster RPT
Albuquerque NM
(505) 518-3088
------------------------------

 Benjamin, 

I am aware of what you're talking about. In addition, it seems to me that the top note on that bridge is almost always nearly impossible to tune "perfectly" (if you know what I mean), which adds to the situation. Here are a few things I've tried with relatively good success:

1) A pitchlock string coupler on the top note positioned for minimal effect (near the agraffe) can slightly mitigate that "blat" sound. Believe it or not, sometimes putting it on the tuning pin side of the agraffe can also have just enough effect to improve it. 

2) I have found that my ears often tend to focus on the (often) large change going over the break rather than just what's happening at the top of the bass bridge. Although we often say it's a scaling problem (which it is) it is also a strike weight problem, since (in a grand) the bass hammers are usually significantly bigger and heavier than the tenor hammers. I have found that this is one of my biggest bangs for the buck...smoothing the strike weight from the top 4-5 notes on the bass into the first 6-7 tenor notes. I have been pleasantly surprised at the improvement this can make. By reducing the tonal "shock" in this transition, the whole section is better, laying the basis for more effective needling (i.e., less need for). IOW I'm getting closer to treating the cause rather than treating the symptom. 

3) If the situation is acute, I will look at the soundboard to see if it makes sense to try adding a riblet or two in the area of these bridges. I'll generally test first with adding a weight in various places to see if it makes any difference. If so, that is circumstantial evidence that a riblet might do the trick by adding both weight and stiffness to the board there, thus increasing its impedance and slowing down the energy transfer into the board at that point.  This has proven to be quite effective in several cases. 

True, you must have riblets available to do this. I make my own, patterned after Darrell Fandrich's suggestions (there's a journal article on it somewhere).  This allows me to experiment with the size of the riblet(s) as well as the design (e.g., full surface contact or end contact only). Again, my goal here is to try to even things out across the transition such that traditional voicing is more effective. 

This application can work equally well on an upright where you're experiencing almost the exact same problem, but in reverse. Nonetheless, treating SB impedance and strike weight discrepancies can be highly effective. 

There's more, but that's what I've got to offer right now.

HTH

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 18:06
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

Benjamin-

Try pressing down on the end of the bridge with a screwdriver while paying the note.

If this improves the sound, the problem involves inadequate impedance at the end of the bridge.

If so, there are ways to improve this. One of the easiest is to wedge a rolled up sock under the soundboard, between the end of the bridge and a nearby cross brace.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 12:56
From: Benjamin Webster
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Webster RPT
Albuquerque NM
(505) 518-3088
------------------------------

 Benjamin, 

I am aware of what you're talking about. In addition, it seems to me that the top note on that bridge is almost always nearly impossible to tune "perfectly" (if you know what I mean), which adds to the situation. Here are a few things I've tried with relatively good success:

1) A pitchlock string coupler on the top note positioned for minimal effect (near the agraffe) can slightly mitigate that "blat" sound. Believe it or not, sometimes putting it on the tuning pin side of the agraffe can also have just enough effect to improve it. 

2) I have found that my ears often tend to focus on the (often) large change going over the break rather than just what's happening at the top of the bass bridge. Although we often say it's a scaling problem (which it is) it is also a strike weight problem, since (in a grand) the bass hammers are usually significantly bigger and heavier than the tenor hammers. I have found that this is one of my biggest bangs for the buck...smoothing the strike weight from the top 4-5 notes on the bass into the first 6-7 tenor notes. I have been pleasantly surprised at the improvement this can make. By reducing the tonal "shock" in this transition, the whole section is better, laying the basis for more effective needling (i.e., less need for). IOW I'm getting closer to treating the cause rather than treating the symptom. 

3) If the situation is acute, I will look at the soundboard to see if it makes sense to try adding a riblet or two in the area of these bridges. I'll generally test first with adding a weight in various places to see if it makes any difference. If so, that is circumstantial evidence that a riblet might do the trick by adding both weight and stiffness to the board there, thus increasing its impedance and slowing down the energy transfer into the board at that point.  This has proven to be quite effective in several cases. 

True, you must have riblets available to do this. I make my own, patterned after Darrell Fandrich's suggestions (there's a journal article on it somewhere).  This allows me to experiment with the size of the riblet(s) as well as the design (e.g., full surface contact or end contact only). Again, my goal here is to try to even things out across the transition such that traditional voicing is more effective. 

This application can work equally well on an upright where you're experiencing almost the exact same problem, but in reverse. Nonetheless, treating SB impedance and strike weight discrepancies can be highly effective. 

There's more, but that's what I've got to offer right now.

HTH

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 18:06
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

Benjamin-

Try pressing down on the end of the bridge with a screwdriver while paying the note.

If this improves the sound, the problem involves inadequate impedance at the end of the bridge.

If so, there are ways to improve this. One of the easiest is to wedge a rolled up sock under the soundboard, between the end of the bridge and a nearby cross brace.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 12:56
From: Benjamin Webster
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Webster RPT
Albuquerque NM
(505) 518-3088
------------------------------

 Benjamin, 

I am aware of what you're talking about. In addition, it seems to me that the top note on that bridge is almost always nearly impossible to tune "perfectly" (if you know what I mean), which adds to the situation. Here are a few things I've tried with relatively good success:

1) A pitchlock string coupler on the top note positioned for minimal effect (near the agraffe) can slightly mitigate that "blat" sound. Believe it or not, sometimes putting it on the tuning pin side of the agraffe can also have just enough effect to improve it. 

2) I have found that my ears often tend to focus on the (often) large change going over the break rather than just what's happening at the top of the bass bridge. Although we often say it's a scaling problem (which it is) it is also a strike weight problem, since (in a grand) the bass hammers are usually significantly bigger and heavier than the tenor hammers. I have found that this is one of my biggest bangs for the buck...smoothing the strike weight from the top 4-5 notes on the bass into the first 6-7 tenor notes. I have been pleasantly surprised at the improvement this can make. By reducing the tonal "shock" in this transition, the whole section is better, laying the basis for more effective needling (i.e., less need for). IOW I'm getting closer to treating the cause rather than treating the symptom. 

3) If the situation is acute, I will look at the soundboard to see if it makes sense to try adding a riblet or two in the area of these bridges. I'll generally test first with adding a weight in various places to see if it makes any difference. If so, that is circumstantial evidence that a riblet might do the trick by adding both weight and stiffness to the board there, thus increasing its impedance and slowing down the energy transfer into the board at that point.  This has proven to be quite effective in several cases. 

True, you must have riblets available to do this. I make my own, patterned after Darrell Fandrich's suggestions (there's a journal article on it somewhere).  This allows me to experiment with the size of the riblet(s) as well as the design (e.g., full surface contact or end contact only). Again, my goal here is to try to even things out across the transition such that traditional voicing is more effective. 

This application can work equally well on an upright where you're experiencing almost the exact same problem, but in reverse. Nonetheless, treating SB impedance and strike weight discrepancies can be highly effective. 

There's more, but that's what I've got to offer right now.

HTH

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 18:06
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

Benjamin-

Try pressing down on the end of the bridge with a screwdriver while paying the note.

If this improves the sound, the problem involves inadequate impedance at the end of the bridge.

If so, there are ways to improve this. One of the easiest is to wedge a rolled up sock under the soundboard, between the end of the bridge and a nearby cross brace.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 03-21-2025 12:56
From: Benjamin Webster
Subject: Voicing top bass notes

I have experienced a consistent challenge in voicing the top couple of notes on the bass bridge. The problem is most apparent with the very top note of the section; it is still present but less pronounced on the 2-4 notes below that. I'd describe it as a kind of "blat" sound, which is unpleasant in itself and bears a marked contrast with the lowest tenor notes. I haven't tried to measure the partial spectrum, but I suspect these notes are loud in high frequencies and weak in the fundamental and/or lower ones. I do most of my voicing on Steinways, but I have also run into this issue with Schimmels and other pianos. Deep needling of the shoulders and mating hammers to strings are always part of my routine, so the problem is not caused by omission of those steps. I get the sound both on hammers with string grooves and those that have just been reshaped (although the bad tone in question is not unlike the harsh, unfocused tone of hammers with deep grooves). 

I wonder if any other voicers recognize what I'm describing. Do the top bass notes need distinct treatment to get a balanced tonal gradient? At some point I remember seeing either a PTG class or article titled "Voicing the Break," but now I can't locate it.

Thanks,

Ben W. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Webster RPT
Albuquerque NM
(505) 518-3088
------------------------------