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What does this "L" screw do?

  • 1.  What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 06:55
      |   view attached

    Greetings,

    Working on a 1920-something "Stodart" piano (brand name appears on the fallboard only--no where on the string frame).

    The question at present is: What is the function of the "L" shaped piece that screws into the horizontal member of the wippen body? As can be seen in the (hopefully) attached image, the short, bent part of the "L" hovers above the rear of the repetition lever. There is a piece of felt on top of the repetition lever underneath the bent part of the screw, suggesting that there could be contact between the angled part of this screw and the top rear of the repetition lever. We have not been able to discern the function of this part, which I have not seen on any more modern grand actions. When we rotate the bent part of the "L" screw 90o, so that it is parallel, rather than perpendicular, to the repetition lever. the action still seems to work in every other respect.

    Thanks,

    Alan



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 08:30
    I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to be a balancier stop to keep it from going up too high. Looking carefully at the picture, it looks like the felt at the end of the balancier is depressed slightly, indicating that it is doing the job. 

    I think this serves the same purpose as the rail behind upright damper wires on an upright. 

    Wim





  • 3.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 12:41

    I follow your reasoning, Wim. But with the naked eye alone, I cannot discern the rear part of the repetition lever trying to rise higher than where it would be as a function of the drop position.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 12:44
    I agree with you, Alan, but that's the only reason I can think of. 

    Wim





  • 5.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Posted 08-29-2025 14:24
    My understanding has always been that these little stop guards are a bit redundant. If everything is working properly and geometry is correct they do nothing.   However, it might be possible in certain situations, such as a very loose rep lever combined with weak springs, or too much space between the shanks and cushions, that the rep lever could drop far enough to prevent the jack from returning so the key might block or misfire. I never tested if this piece could actually prevent a malfunction in those situations, but it's my understanding that was the idea anyway.  Hope that helps. 

    best,
    d. 

    Dennis Johnson, R.P.T.
    Facebook.com/johnsonpianoservice
    (612) 599-6437  (cell)





  • 6.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 14:36

    After spending some more time with the action in question this morning, I have arrived at pretty much the same conclusion that you just shared, Dennis.

    So where were you yesterday when I was tearing out what little hair I have left? ;-)



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 15:58
    I tend to agree that it is largely redundant, probably only really necessary when things are badly out of whack. But looking at high speed videography, one finds that actions can be more unpredictable than we might imagine. 

    Scott Murphy has been working at fast repetition with various variants, with a Juilliard student playing the note, and the amount of variation is pretty amazing - how high the key rises, how fast the next finger is able to reverse the movement of the key, whether or not the hammer hits the check, whether or not the jack toe hits the let off button, how low the hammer goes after striking the string, and on and on. 

    Seeing that variety, in real life playing, makes me realize that the unexpected often happens even in a well-prepped piano. OTOH, action makers today seem to have abandoned the L screw, without apparent problems. 

    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    fssturm@comcast
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity, and there is no cure for curiosity." Dorothy Parker






  • 8.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 10:33

    My guess is that it protects the cord loop from excess strain and keep it from breaking.



    ------------------------------
    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 12:44

    That could well be the case, Paul. But as I said in response to Wim, why would the rear of the repetition lever "try" to rise higher than where the drop position would put it?



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 12:44
    It limits the motion of the rep lever. Common on a lot of early 20th century pianos. Among other things, this might avoid noises/clicks from colliding parts, avoid "catastrophic action failure" (lock up), improve repetition by keeping things within bounds..

    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    http://fredsturm.net
    www.artoftuning.com
    "One's real life is so often the life that one does not lead" (Oscar Wilde)






  • 11.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-29-2025 12:58

    Good point, Fred.

    Just answered my own question as to why the rear of the repetition lever would rise any higher than where the drop screw would put it: By the hammer going into check, of course (because that pushes the front of the repetition lever farther down than the drop point, making the rear rise father up)! In that sense, it could be a safeguard against CAF in the event that backchecking becomes way too low.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 00:56

    If you put impact pressure on a group of hammers in the unsupported center of a section you will often hear one or more hammer shanks hitting these stop bars, thereby solving the cause of a mysterious click during vigorous playing.  You can also see marks on the offending hammer shanks where they hit. 

    This might be a reason to turn down some of these bars or raise the hammer rail.

    Something to check.



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 10:27

    Put a star by your name, Blaine, for identifying the reason we are focused on this "L" screw! The phenomenon your describe--exacerbated by mis-bored hammers and a relatively high action ratio--have compelled us to reduce hammer blow distance to the point where we have to settle for less than 10 mm of key dip.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 06:45
    It could be the rep lever height adjustment mechanism. I just finished a thorough regulation of an early Erard, and that's how Erard controls the rep lever height. Erard has that L adjustment right next to the rep window, so it's very obvious as to the function.  See if it has any relation to rep lever height.

    Tom Servinsky 

    Registered Piano Technician

    Concert Artist Piano Technician

    Jazz Pianist for events

    tompiano@tomservinsky.com

    772 221 1011 office

    772 260 7110 cell

     






  • 15.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 10:37

    Tom,

    The repetition lever height on this Stodart action is adjusted by the same screw/button/punching arrangement found at the back end of more modern grand repetition levers.

    Trying to picture what you describe on that Erard you regulated. So, it has to be rotated 360o to adjust repetition lever height up or down? If that is the case, seems like it wouldn't allow for precise fine regulation.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 08:23

    First, CAF is a new acronym to me, but I love it! Secondly, Stodart was a NY maker, built squares, then uprights and small grands. Thirdly, I think the piece served as "idiot proofing" to keep a tech from pushing down the front of the lever too far and snapping the cord for the spring. It makes you think, disconnect the cord first, then turn the screw 90 degrees, and then do whatever you need to do. 
    it would be interesting to know how a piano from a small production maker in NY ended up at CalArts, and what you intend to do with it, but we all take on projects that are more interesting technically than musically. I think this design went away because it was relatively heavy and slow compared to the butterfly spring, plus a bit more complicated to work on without obvious benefit.



    ------------------------------
    David Graham,RPT
    Graham Piano Service, Inc
    Sycamore IL 60178
    815-353-5450
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 11:00

    Hi David,

    Thanks for chiming in!

    My German dean often comments on our (American) penchant for acronyms. CAF is one of my personal favorites. "Catastrophic Action Failure" sounds like the piano action equivalent of a submersible imploding, or the like.

    Thanks for the 411 on Stodart. Another technician evaluated this piano for us and could not find it listed in the Pierce Atlas. We ascertained its approximate age by design features (such as the wippen). Thought it could be a stencil piano, since there is no "brand" cast into the string frame.

    Your take on what function that "L" screw performs may be on to something (and along the lines of what Paul McCloud wrote).

    I was hoping that no one would inquire as to how it is that we are working on such a beast. But since you asked, here is the reason: We needed a small grand and, due to financial constraints, we are no able to purchase any pianos. The only way we are able to augment our inventory is to accept donations and then take what ever time is necessary to make those instruments ship-shape. Very educational for my trainees, but real time bandits (especially this one!). Had I evaluated this piano personally, I may not have accepted it. But once we had paid for the evaluation and the move, the die was cast. We had no viable alternative but to forge ahead and make the most of it (without replacing any parts). It had been restrung and the hammers were replaced (although not the shanks and flanges), but the regulation was in a deplorable state. However, for a 4' 9' instrument with no beams, it has decent tone.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 11:30
    Alan said:  the regulation was in a deplorable state.

    This may be a give-away for the "L" screw. Early 20th century pianos were going to some remote parts of the country where service beyond tuning might be hard to find. The "L" screw could be the safety factor that would keep the piano functioning even if the regulation was compromised..

    Richard West





  • 19.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 11:54

    That may very well be the case, Richard.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 12:33
    Concerning the Erard L screw, it is on the other end of the rep lever. It limits how high the lever goes, a function that was moved to the other end of the lever as a button acting from below (the Erard lever doesn't extend beyond its action center).

    Concerning CAF, my own take is that this arose from the fact that Steinway failed to control string plane height relative to the keybed starting sometime mid 20th century, and string heights grew by 5 mm or more while hammer bore distance stayed the same. This resulted in shanks off the pillows by 10 mm and more, and lots of technicians coming up with lots of fixes (I remember detailed articles by Ken Sloane, for instance, as well as posts by Newton Hunt, making extensions on the hammer tails so check could be closer than 15 mm or so, adjusting how high the back checks were, lots of gnashing of teeth).

    That geometrical inconsistency lasted for decades, at least into the oughts (2000-2010), as I found while rebuilding multiple Steinway grands and measuring centerpin height vs string height, so I simply stopped using Steinway hammers so that I could control bore distance and tail length and get the action to function. Longer bore took care of the various problems.

    CAF was one of the problems that arose from this excess string plane height, and I think it was Eric Schandall who told me that if you made sure the pillow was within 5 mm of the bottoms of the shanks, that would solve the problem. I tried it, and never had the problem again. On the pianos with original parts, pillows covered with the red cloth, I glued bits of felt on top to fill the gap (felt I had peeled from wippens whose felt was too thick in other jobs). DIdn't look too great, but did the job.

    How did this work? I think that on a very hard and rapid blow, where the hammer rebounds from the string but the check is no longer there, the rep lever would be depressed a lot more than usual, potentially leading to the lock up. With a high cushion, the shank would bounce up off the cushion, keeping the lock up from happening.

    It was during that period that I speculated the L screw might have been intended to serve that same purpose. A kind of fail safe. I don't think those action designers would have just put it there for no reason.

    BTW, I believe the protocol of extra-tight pinning of rep levers also had its origin in CAF, from conversations with Rick Baldassin (who I believe was the one who started it). He related a story about talks with Bill Garlick when he was at Steinway, telling him about the need to strengthen rep springs beyond the normal parameters,  to avoid CAF. That led to rick's reasoning behind the pinning protocol - which is intended to make a stronger rep spring possible with more standard behavior (not too jumpy).


    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    fssturm@comcast
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity, and there is no cure for curiosity." Dorothy Parker






  • 21.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-30-2025 14:08

    Thanks so much for the background you provided on the story behind CAF and the related need for stronger rep spring tension and rep lever center pinning. Fascinating stuff, Fred.

    With regard to your statement that, "I don't think those action designers would have just put it there for no reason," one of the few relatively safe assumptions we can make in piano technology is that manufacturers are extremely unlikely to spend a nickle on something that doesn't need to be there. That is why, before proceeding to neutralize these "L" screws, I wanted to first gain an understanding of why they were there to begin with.

    Thanks for being a living archive, and for sharing your knowledge and understanding so freely, Fred.



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: What does this "L" screw do?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-31-2025 16:17

    In Merle Mason's book "Piano parts and Their functions," the "L" screw is called "repetition lever stop hook." No further details in the glossary but the name certainly gives one the idea of its function. These hooks can be found on most of the major types of wippens manufactured for older pianos. Including Steinway I believe. I tuned a 1930 Mason & Hamlin A yesterday that had the hooks. 



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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------