Hi, Blaine,
I, too, am wondering if these are "genuine" parts. Depending on the age
of those, if they are genuine, there were certainly periods when the
"genuine" machining was not what it could have been.
I've run into things like this a fair amount; and find myself looking to
see about traveling paper remnants, as well as possible distortions in
the rail(s), milling irregularities in the flanges, gunk on the rails
(were they thoroughly cleaned), if someone has replaced the original
screws, &c.
While some of this always seems to feel like grasping at straws, from
what you describe and the pictures show, there's something mechanical
that's creating some issues.
While I'm certainly not perfect in this, I try to get the various
flanges and centers lined up using a straight edge, a sharp knife; and a
jaundiced eye before doing much with regulation.
Hope that there is something here that helps.
Kind regards.
Horace
On 11/8/2023 7:19 PM, Peter Grey via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Blaine,
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, I see what you're talking about when I zoom in. I've never had this problem before. I can't even figure out how it could occur (unless the rail is split on the underside and now creating random places where the flanges won't fit).
>
>
>
>
>
> Are these factory parts or aftermarket? What is causing the random tipping of the flanges?
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Grey Piano Doctor
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Peter Grey
> Stratham NH
> (603) 686-2395
>
pianodoctor57@gmail.com> ------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-08-2023 20:42
> From: Wim Blees
> Subject: Whippen alignment
>
> I think I described it wrong, but when I look at the flange line, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Remove one of the wippens that sticks out more and see if there is travel paper under the flange.
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11/8/2023 8:23:00 PM
> From: Blaine Hebert
> Subject: RE: Whippen alignment
>
>
> Wim,
>
> Look carefully at the alignment of the whippen flanges, or at the line of the balancers. Both show an irregular line, the cause being how the whippen flanges seat and change the position of the whippen, then this affects the relationship of the jacks to the knuckles. You probably need to zoom in on the flange line.
>
> Blaine
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Blaine Hebert RPT
> Duarte CA
> (626) 390-0512
> ------------------------------
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-08-2023 20:11
> From: Wim Blees
> Subject: Whippen alignment
>
> Blaine
> I'm not sure what you mean by wippen line, but what I am seeing is very slight differences between the end of the balancer and r rest cushion. Is that what you mean?
> If that is the case, the only thing I can think of is that on those that are a little closer to the rest cushion have travel paper between the flange and rail.
> Just a guess.
> Wim
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11/8/2023 12:19:00 AM
> From: Blaine Hebert
> Subject: Whippen alignment
>
>
> I have been working with a partially "rebuilt" Steinway M that has been a dissapointment. There is quite a bit of touch irregularity, especially in the low tenor and bass with differences in aftertouch despite my key level, dip and regulation. Today, while trying to figure out why I noticed that the whippen line was quite irregular, the problem seems to be at the whippen rail. This leads to different jack settings with irregular jack to knuckle positions.
>
> How common is this and how much attention do you rebuilders typically give to whippen lines?
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Blaine Hebert RPT
> Duarte CA
> (626) 390-0512
> ------------------------------
>
>
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>
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Original Message:
Sent: 11/8/2023 10:20:00 PM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Whippen alignment
Blaine,
Yes, I see what you're talking about when I zoom in. I've never had this problem before. I can't even figure out how it could occur (unless the rail is split on the underside and now creating random places where the flanges won't fit).
Are these factory parts or aftermarket? What is causing the random tipping of the flanges?
Peter Grey Piano Doctor
------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2023 20:42
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Whippen alignment
I think I described it wrong, but when I look at the flange line, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Remove one of the wippens that sticks out more and see if there is travel paper under the flange.
Original Message:
Sent: 11/8/2023 8:23:00 PM
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: RE: Whippen alignment
Wim,
Look carefully at the alignment of the whippen flanges, or at the line of the balancers. Both show an irregular line, the cause being how the whippen flanges seat and change the position of the whippen, then this affects the relationship of the jacks to the knuckles. You probably need to zoom in on the flange line.
Blaine
------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512
Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2023 20:11
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Whippen alignment
Blaine
I'm not sure what you mean by wippen line, but what I am seeing is very slight differences between the end of the balancer and r rest cushion. Is that what you mean?
If that is the case, the only thing I can think of is that on those that are a little closer to the rest cushion have travel paper between the flange and rail.
Just a guess.
Wim
Original Message:
Sent: 11/8/2023 12:19:00 AM
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: Whippen alignment
I have been working with a partially "rebuilt" Steinway M that has been a dissapointment. There is quite a bit of touch irregularity, especially in the low tenor and bass with differences in aftertouch despite my key level, dip and regulation. Today, while trying to figure out why I noticed that the whippen line was quite irregular, the problem seems to be at the whippen rail. This leads to different jack settings with irregular jack to knuckle positions.
How common is this and how much attention do you rebuilders typically give to whippen lines?
------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512
------------------------------