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Why key lips

  • 1.  Why key lips

    Posted 04-12-2023 20:01

    Today I took on the challenging task of doing a pitch raise on a fairly old spinet piano.  While I was working on it I noticed that all of the key lips had been filed off.  I'm guessing this was due to some (or many) of them being chipped and ragged and the easiest and cheapest thing to do was to get rid of all of the lips all together.  This led me to start wondering why they are there in the first place.  After I was done I had no problem in playing the piano ... at least not due to missing key lips.  So I'm asking "Why are they there?".  I couldn't think of one, but I'm hoping someone knows the history behind them and what they are good for.



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    Neil Vanderschaaf
    Round Rock TX
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  • 2.  RE: Why key lips

    Posted 04-12-2023 20:46

    I've had several customers that filed down the keys like that. Yep, it's cheap and easy and makes the piano look a lot better. There are some pianos that have curved keys instead of the lip. Looks really cool, but I don't know how it would work to repair one 🤔

    I don't know the reason for the lip other than it makes it easier to replace them. More room for error...

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    www.thattuningguy.com
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  • 3.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-13-2023 06:02
    I don't know the reason, other than tradition. but I do know that I believe it was Lester, and maybe another company, that made "waterfall" keys, where the fronts were actually rounded off. 





  • 4.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-13-2023 06:55

    I suspect that it was simply a decision made in keeping with standard furniture practice, that of having a slight overhang from any horizontal surface. It was/is standard practice up until the advent of mid-century modern styling. Virtually all wood furniture where a vertical surface meets a horizontal surface there is an overhang of the horizontal. The function of this overhang may in fact be simply to aid in moving things around, though there could be other reasons too, however it is so ubiquitous in furniture design that departing from it (especially 300 years ago) would be considered radical and unacceptable. Therefore the tradition continues (and we all know just how "traditional" the world of piano making is...).

    Im sure that when the first keyboards were being built the question came up: "Should there be a lip or not?" And the answer was "yes" and it's been that way virtually ever since.  Notice how "popular" those waterfall keys became... 😉 

    Just my two cents

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-13-2023 08:30

    Back in the "olden days" keyboards were covered with ivory. The ivory heads were glued on the keysticks overly long at the front, and they ran wild. They had to be trimmed/milled back to a uniform aesthetic appearance, however they could not be trimmed back flush to the keyfronts for fear of marring the keyfronts, already applied. Thus, the ivory heads were left proud of the keyfronts to a small, uniform overhang (safety factor), typically .060" to .080". The tradition has continued into the post-ivory age.
    David G. Hughes, RPT
    Baltimore Chapter 



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    David Hughes RPT
    Vintage Case Parts
    Glyndon MD
    (443) 522-2201
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  • 6.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-13-2023 11:17

    Neil,
    The overhang conceals the vertical to horizonal glue joint for better aesthetics. 
    Roger



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    Roger Gable RPT
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    (425) 252-5000
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  • 7.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 17:15

    I've found the lip helpful when trying play very wide intervals, as I can play off the front of the key, not just the top.  For example, my pinky can be on a C#2, and my thumb can pull down on the front of E3 (is that a m17th?).  On pianos without a lip, I cannot do this.

    I can't reach a M17, maybe if I stretch a lot I'll get there.



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    Tom Dowell
    Hulbert Piano
    tom@hulbertpiano.com
    262-221-0792
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  • 8.  RE: Why key lips

    Posted 04-19-2023 17:28

    I've deduced over the years that its for two reasons 1) hide the glue joint and 2) to avoid square corners.

    -chris



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    Chernobieff Piano Restorations
    "Where Tone is Key"
    Piano Designer and Maker
    Designer of Inertia Touch Wave
    865-986-7720 (text only please)
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  • 9.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 17:32
    Is that why the "waterfall" keys were invented?





  • 10.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2023 08:28

    Wim,

    Notice that waterfall keys appear only on PSO's that were intended for people who do not play significantly well. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 11.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 17:59
    Hi Thomas,
      C#2-E3 is a m10th, a minor third beyond an octave. I doubt any human could reach any 17th (with one hand). The name of an interval counts the notes of a scale, such as major or minor, which usually contains 8 notes, including the octave above the starting note. For example, a perfect 12th (P12) is a perfect 5th beyond a perfect octave, where perfect means not altered, i.e. not expanded or contracted. 

    Mark Schecter, RPT
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  • 12.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 18:13

    Oh yeah, duh.  Perhaps not enough coffee, or maybe too much!

    Too much tooning, not enough playing!

    Thanks!



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    Tom Dowell
    Hulbert Piano
    tom@hulbertpiano.com
    262-221-0792
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  • 13.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 18:42
    Hah! Fun to wonk out a bit on music for a change! 

    Mark Schecter, RPT
     | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | | 






  • 14.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2023 20:59

    Wow! Pianos sing because they've got 52 lips!



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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 15.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2023 16:43

    Tom 
    We all need to think Why and What if and How can we make this better?  I'm glad you asked the question and find the fun in the answers and having not enough fun playing.  I liked the hide the glue joint of the key front the best!  And I'm sure when we see another chipped key top of a molded key top w front we will be thinking of your question. 



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    Jessica Masse RPT
    Western Michigan University
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  • 16.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2023 17:05

    Jessica,
    I learned about the overhang purpose in 8th grade shop class. I felt it was common knowledge in cabinetry design.
    Roger



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    Roger Gable RPT
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    (425) 252-5000
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  • 17.  RE: Why key lips

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2023 19:22

    The "hide the glue joint" theory is nice, but that's not why white keys have lips that overhang fronts.

    David G. Hughes, RPT
    Baltimore Chapter



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    David Hughes RPT
    Vintage Case Parts
    Glyndon MD
    (443) 522-2201
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