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Repinning with large tuning pins

  • 1.  Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-27-2020 12:11
    Hello all,
    I have a customer with an old upright piano that was restrung about 20 years ago.  The stringing job was done very poorly with 2 (or less) coils on the pins, very uneven heights with coils touching the plate on some, etc.  It is almost impossible to get any kind of stability in the tuning, with unisons going out very quickly.  We have discussed restringing the piano, and I removed a couple pins to get a size and discovered they are fives!  I haven't taken a torque reading, but they seem relatively snug in the block.
    So my question is, what should I do about pin size?  I know that larger pins make tuning more difficult, and I surely don't want to have to use sixes!  New pin block panels are out because she doesn't want the piano moved out to my shop.  I was thinking maybe I could just turn the existing pins up enough to get new coils on them without loosening them too much.  But if I reuse these larger pins will the tuning difficulty still remain?
    Any ideas?  Thanks in advance!!

    ------------------------------
    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-27-2020 13:40
    Hi Laura.

    I want to first address the issue with moving the piano to your shop. You need to explain to your customer that the work you need to do requires special equipment and tools, and that you will need to use a glue that smells bad and a little toxic. And that the process of repinning will be loud. It will also cost her twice as much because of all the additional trips you have to take to her house to do the work. That usually convinces a customer to pay to have the piano moved. If she still insists that you do the work in her home, you should consider not doing the work. 

    Regarding the pinning. I just did a grand piano with the same problem. It was restrung with 6 pins. What you want to do is tilt the piano on it's back and put 2 pins in the block. Then add thin CA glue to the pins. Let it sit for a day and remove the 2 pins. Then resting the piano using 3 pins. The torque will feel a little different, but the pins will hold.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-27-2020 15:41
    hello Laura,

    if your customer doesn't want the piano moved to your shop, how would you restring it? Does she realize it would have to be done in her home? 

    2 coils should be fine as long as they are tightly packed together and the becket is squeezed all the way into the tuning pin hole (not doing so does create tuning instability).

    i would not mess with this mess, other than maybe try removing the coils off the pins where the coils are touching the plate, turning them up a little without loosening the torque too much but enough so the coils are not on the plate, to see if that will help with the stability. Just make sure (after discussing with your customer what really would need to be done and that the only other band-aid option is to experiment on a few tuning pins with the coils in the plate).

    It just sounds like someone either did a very sloppy job and/or tried to work on the piano that's past its serviceable life. 

    Sometimes we have to be able to say it's all or nothing. 

    Good luck,

    Peter


    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-27-2020 16:33
    Replace the piano, send this one to the landfill.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-27-2020 22:21
    Laura,

    1) I am curious as to her reason(s) for not wanting the piano going to your shop.  (I have a client who similarly needs and wants his 7' Bosie restrung but does not want it moved to the shop. His reason is that he has already endured two moving mishaps, one of which was very serious, so he is gunshy about moving it and would rather I do it in his home. Money is not an issue.)

    2)  Do you have a portable pinblock drilling jig/fixture?

    3) Are you familiar with the "fill-n-drill" epoxy method?

    4)  Is money an issue for the client, or not really so?

    Personally I would not be on favor of using large amounts of CA. The fumes would be unbearable (IMO).  This is not to say that it would not work. No disrespect toward Wims suggestion either. Homeowners have no idea how strong this can be. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-27-2020 22:58
    Thanks for the responses so far!

    Wim and Peter, this customer is an elderly woman and the piano has been in the family forever.  When she had it restrung 20 years ago, the guy did a lot of damage to the piano and then disappeared, and she had to pay a furniture guy to fix it.  (He moved it to a shop to work on it).  I have restrung pianos in homes before, so I suggested that I could do that because she was leery of moving it again.  Also, money is an issue in this case.
    I am familiar with the epoxy method, and that had crossed my mind, but I do not have a portable drill press. When I read Wim's response I wondered if something like that might work with epoxy rather than CA?

    By the way, I am currently (and have been for some time!) the only piano tech within about a 200 mile radius, so this is why I try to help people with whatever piano they have.  We are rural, and it is very difficult for people to replace their piano unless they are willing to have one shipped a great distance.  I've managed to salvage quite a few pianos and make these customers happy over the years! 😊

    ------------------------------
    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 01:45
    Laura

    Instead of CA, there is an epoxy called impact resin, used to repair fiber glass boat hulls. (You can probably find it at boat repair shops). The difference between that and CA glue is that you need to pour it in the hole until it's half full, and then dive in the pins. (As opposed to driving in the pins and then add the CA glue). The process is still the same, in that you drive in 2 pins and after the impact resin cures in about 3 or 4 days, remove the 2, and string with 3's. The smell is not very nice, either. I'm not saying it can't be done in a customer's home, but be sure there is plenty of ventilation. So you might want to wait until the weather is warmer.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 05:57
    Wim B. wrote: "drive in 2 pins and after the impact resin cures in about 3 or 4 days, remove the 2"

    Epoxy-ing #2 pins in place may prove to be a bit difficult to remove after epoxy cure. Maybe dip pins in mold release prior to use?

    Are you aware of a commercial product for sale that is advertised as being "impact resin"? I've not heard of such a thing before and google wasn't much help either.​

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:05
    Terry

    The few times I've done this repair, the pin came loose with little effort. Yes, it "pops", when you turn it, but then it comes out very easily. 
    If Laura calls a boat repair place, or a plastic manufacturer, they will know what the product is.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 08:26
    Are you referring to West System Epoxy?

    ------------------------------
    Leslie Koltvedt
    Marietta GA
    734-657-7034
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 13:49
    Leslie

    I have never used  West System Epoxy so I can't answer the question. The Impact resin I've used is opaque. It's in two parts, but only one drop of activator is used in a 3 oz. cup. It sets up in about 15 minutes and cures in 3 days. If that what West System does, then I guess its' the same stuff.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-10-2020 22:56
    I haven't done this, but have heard of it and it sounds like it would work. Remove pins, swab with epoxy, allow to dry. Now drill out the holes and install new pins. The details would need to be arrived at experimentally: how thick the epoxy should be, how to be consistent in applying it, how large the drill bit should be for what size pin. Best to experiment at home with a used pinblock and come up with some parameters ahead of time.

    Alternately, remove pin, swab with a thickish CA. Allow to set, determine what size pin will work. This is something I've done for an occasional pin that doesn't respond to extra thin CA applied with the pin in. 

    I'm with you on working with the customer. I'm there to serve my customer, not my ego. And I am willing to work with customers who simply can't afford the glibly recommended "Throw it in the landfill and get a new one" alternative. Although in these times when used pianos can be picked up for next to nothing, that will often be a recommended alternative, it only works if the customer is located where such used instruments are available.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 11:30

    Amen






  • 14.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 09:31
    I am with Jon Page on this one.  On one hand you can't catering to ridiculous requests when the piano is beyond its useful life and cannot be serviced especially when restoration is out of the question.  Secondly what else did the last piano tech do to also ruin any future work? The simple fact is pianos don't last forever.  My guess is the last tech "got the piano by" for a few years and now here you are with a customer who still has a dead piano.   But it all honesty they bought 20 years, 20 years ago.  It won't be able to fixed forever.  

    I would also question the efficacy of glues, epoxies and and adhesives in these situations.    Replace wood with wood.  Make or purchase pinblock plugs.   

    If you cannot do the work the right way (with a new pinblock panel in your shop) because the piano cannot have the work done or the customer isn't willing to pay/let you, you should walk away.   Don't be the last tech, be the only tech.  

    But again the cost vs benefit doesn't ring true regardless of how long the piano has been in the family.  How long until any and all work you do is undone by something else completely?  Regardless of what you do or say, in situations like this, it will always be your fault.  Either for allowing the customer to do it or for making what ever future problem happen because it was fine before you touched it.   

    I am not still driving my great-grand fathers Model-T because it has been in the family.  The Model-T is a vehicle.  Pianos are vehicles for beautiful music. If the piano can no longer singing its a corpse.  Stop playing with corpses.  I wouldn't my grand children playing with a piano just because it was my piano- I would want them to continue to enjoy playing music on a good piano because music is the gift not the piano.  The thousands of  dollars in moving and repair an upright could get them a much nicer piano and the music lives on.

    ------------------------------
    Gregory Cheng, RPT
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 11:24
    The family originally purchased the gift of music. Generations later, they don't have to keep the box it came in.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:09
    I agree with Jon but I'm also on Laura's side. We rural tuners do the best we can with what is there to help it limp along. Especially if we have fully informed the client.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:16
    Larry is right. Laura lives in a small town in Southwestern Colorado. New or used pianos are not readily available. The closest big city is almost 4 hours away.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:12
    Gregory

    On the one hand I agree with you. As piano technicians it is our job to make sure the customer understands the life span of a piano. 
    On the other hand, perhaps Laura has explained that, but the customer insisted on getting the work done. We should not turn down work if the customer is willing to pay. By the same token, however, we should not let a customer tell us how to do our job. A repair like this requires the work to be done in a shop, not the customer's house.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:29
    In case it matters, the piano is in pretty good condition for an oldie.  The soundboard, ribs, and bridges are in good shape (no cracks, separations), the action performs acceptably albeit worn, and the ivories are in pristine condition.  We've discussed hammer replacement in the future if this stringing repair is successful and we can get it tuning well.  
    I've decided to discuss with her again the advantages of moving the piano to my shop, especially price-wise because she actually lives about 50 miles away.  That's a lot of travel expense, and moving of tools and such.

    ------------------------------
    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 12:52
    Wim,
    how does impact resin differ from other epoxy resins such as West System?

    ------------------------------
    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 13:09
    I've never used West system, so i don't know how to use it.  I do know that the impact resin has a set up time of almost 15 minutes. Once you've mixed up a small batch, like a nut cup, you've got 10 or 12 minutes to poor it in the holes. (You only want to do about 10 or notes are a time.)

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 13:06
    Laura

    One thing I've found that when I've tried to do work like this in a customer's house is, that no matter how well I plan, and go over the list of tools and supplies I need, I always forget one thing, like a tool or a piece of equipment or a part. And, some of the tools I need for a particular repair i also need every day, so you can't just take what you need and leave them there. If you give here a price that will reflect the extra travel time, etc, (which should be almost double), she can easily see that having the piano moved is cheaper. You can assure her that your movers are insured and bonded and will be very careful with her piano. (presuming they are and will).

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 13:31
    The piano MUST go to your shop. The string frame has to be removed. Maybe one of her kin has an engine hoist to be set up in her house. Of course most of the furniture has to be removed to make room. Since replacing the block is not an option in the house, pin block plugs will be installed. Once that's done, and the surface leveled, the string frame can go back on. In stall tuning pin bushings. You can do a decent job free-hand using the two bit method.

    Oh, you might as well move in too.

    She will spend thousands of dollars and will still be hard pressed to give it away. If you are considering taking on this job, do it. It will be the job that in the future you'll say, "I'll, never do that again."

    On thing I have learned in considering work. The question is not, Can I do this? but Should I do this?   The answer to the first question is usually yes and to the second; NO.

    This sounds like an opportunity to start a used piano business.  There are free pianos on craigslist in the nearest big city to supply your inventory.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 13:58
    You'll have to remove the key bed too. Lacking an engine hoist, you could set the back and sides up and angle the string frame out and 'walk' it over to a wall for storage. Then replace the piano back on the tilter to install pin block plugs.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 18:23
    No Jon. Plate does not need to be removed and keybed does not need to be removed. It is a PITA but I've restrung several uprights that way. Just have to schedule some massages.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 21:00
    The new pinblock panels ruled out in the initial post should be reconsidered given move.


  • 27.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 21:53
    Larry, if one is going to do a job, do it right. A new block or plug it. The key bed and string frame has to be removed. There is no sense to bring it to the shop just to bugger it up more.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 22:09
    Code of ethics #5​​

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 22:45
    Jon

    I don't think Laura was going to restring the piano. Just repin it. There is no need to remove the plate for that, much less the keybed.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 22:59
    Wim,

    Is "impact" resin the same as what we used to call fiberglass resin? I remember "glassing" an old upright pin block once. That was back in the late 1970s or so. 

    Fiberglass resin was used for boat repair and predated epoxy resin. Am I right on that? It smelled about as bad as epoxy does and required good ventilation. But it worked. It was also a lot of work. Remove string, remove pin, swab hole with resin, drive pin back in, attach string. The next day crack pin so that it will turn. Tune. Does that about get it? I think I only tried it once, but many technicians had great success restoring pin tightness. And it seemed to last. If you did a grand, didn't you have to block the holes underneath? Could you go back to a smaller pin? 

    It was a long time ago.

    Richard West







  • 31.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 00:03
    Richard

    Yes, to almost every question.  I've done 2 grand pianos this way.  I didn't swab the hole, I poured it in the hole, about half way, then drove in 2 pins. I did have to shore up the bottom of the pin block. The idea is to drive the resin into the cracks. The reason I used 2's and the strung with 3's, is that when you break the glue joint of the 2 pins, the hole stays the same size, and the pins will not hold. That is why you need to string with 3's.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 14:38
    In reading all these responses, I have come to realize that many, if not maybe, most, tuners today live in large population areas. Life "in the big city" is very different from life out here "in the boonies" (I know, some folks think California cannot be rural life-well, ya never been HERE, that's for certain!). I actually live close to large cities, but grew up in the mountains, and my present home/shop is in the mountains, sans cell reception, broadband internet, and cable-and due to the trees and orientation of the hills around me, satellites too. Yep, I am communicating with you via 38k (small "k") dial-up-it does still exist!. Life in these rural areas is very different, we don't have the resources that large population centers provide. Used pianos are not "a dime a dozen" although pianos do get dumped here too.
    Families here also treasure memories, and a piano that has been in the family for decades, if not since new, and been handed down a generation or two, has an emotional value that cannot be measured. Given enough time and work any piano can be brought back to "like new" condition-granted, if it's a square grand, like new wasn't very good!  Some families are willing to spend the money, others are not. In this situation the desire to NOT move the piano is based on past experience, and the difficulty in finding someone capable of moving the piano in a safe manner. The roads to be covered may be treacherous to moving a piano too.
    Music touches the soul, and our business is a very emotional one because of that.  One poster said that the gift of music isn't the box-sorry, it IS the box; we all know (or should by now) that no two "boxes" are identical, each one has a "soul" I guess you would call it, as the touch and response varies from instrument to instrument. If you deny this aspect of the tuning business, then  you will not have a happy life, nor happy customers.
    But now I'm getting too philosophical, my main reason for responding was to try to make you aware that living conditions vary throughout this country, and one has to adapt to what one's region is like and fill its needs as best he/she can. Those of us who do not live in a similar area need to try to "walk in their shoes" a bit to have some understanding.
    OK, this reminds me of a saying, "Before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes; so when you do criticize them, not only are you a mile away, you also have their shoes!"
    David Dewey
     





  • 33.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 15:00

    Well said, David.  


    I want to add to that, something most people in the Midwest and Eastern part of the country don't completely understand. It's  very dry in the West, and even worse so in the mountains.  Strings do not rust. When I did some tuning in Colorado in the '90's, I worked on 100 year old pianos that were pristine. No rust on the strings, no dirty action parts, the finish was almost brand new looking, and the soundboard and pin  block were free of cracks.  



    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 05:22
    Jon P. wrote: "The key bed and string frame has to be removed."

    I'm puzzled at the suggestion that a piano's keybed would need to be removed for pinblock replacement. Can you explain why?


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 08:03
    "Jon P. wrote: "The key bed and string frame has to be removed."

    "I'm puzzled at the suggestion that a piano's keybed would need to be removed for pinblock replacement. Can you explain why?"

    It's an upright piano. To pull the plate, you must remove the keybed.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 10:02
    Ed S. wrote: "It's an upright piano. To pull the plate, you must remove the keybed."

    Oops, oops, oops! MY BAD! I think I'll just slink away with my tail tucked between my legs.......   :-0


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 10:39
    Terry, we all get this every now and then.
    :-)

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 38.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 13:51
    From what I think Laura told us, she's not removing the plate. She might not even be restringing the piano, just repinning. So there is no need to remove the keybed.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-28-2020 22:45
    An Alternative to plugging would be to inlay a pin block panel. With a drill press and forstner bit, remove the bulk and finish the perimeter with a chisel.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 14:11
    You'll all be happy to know that I've spoken with my customer again and she agreed to move the piano to my shop after I explained the advantages cost wise and about the chemicals.  

    By the way Jon, I have restored several old uprights for customers that had "sentimental value" (NOT craigslist crap), and they have been very happy, and feel very positively about my work.  Plus, just like Chuck Behm, I enjoy it!😄

    ------------------------------
    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Member
    Posted 11-28-2020 15:17

    It sounds like the better option is to find a replacement and retire this piano. If you add the time, effort, risk of moving the piano to your shop, doing all the work needed in the shop, transporting it back, costs of parts and problems uncovered during the work I can't see how it will not cost big $$$$$$. I understand the sentimental attachment people have to pianos but sometimes they need to be retired. The fact it has 5.0 pins in it indicates people took advantage of her . Perhaps you could get a bunch of PTG members to unite and make it a group project and gift the piano back . BTW what make is the piano ?

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-28-2020 21:29
    It's not about the money. It's about making someone happy. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 11:42

    Double amen






  • 44.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 11-29-2020 18:18
    I had a job like this a couple of years ago...well kinda.  Customer's dad had died recently. He wanted to keep his dad's piano (which his grandfather had won in a poker game years ago). Horrible, horrible no name runt grand. Needed everything, and was horribly built to start with. I offered him a nice grand I had in the shop instead of restoring this thing...but he wanted his dad's piano. I said I could do a very very partial rebuild for 15k, get it up and running, but not anything more than that, as it really needed 35k. Gave him the proposal. He sat on it for 6 months. Every once in a while, he'd email with a question. Finally after 6 months of intermittent emails, he said he was ready to go ahead with it.

    Directly after that email, he emailed again, saying point blank..."is this worth it?". I emailed back, utterly candidly, and said no it was absolutely not worth it musically, giving my reasons. I said the only reason It would be worth it was for the pure emotional connection, and to be clear about that from the beginning. So, I said, he needed to decide whether the emotional connection was worth 15k. He thanked me for the candid reply, thought about it another 2 weeks,, finally saying "go ahead"...thanking me for making him focus on why he would make this investment.

    It actually came out pretty well, as I experimented with some old board techniques I've been messing with since, and experimented with strategies for reviving something that never had it to begin with. We did put more into it than we contracted for, but I kind of liked the job, where the customer's intention was honestly challenged before he accepted. It was purely an emotional journey for him, and he was quite grateful for the the improvements we worked on it.


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 45.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 18:39
    Not every restoration job needs to be all or nothing. There are customers who just want to make the piano sound nice and play well enough for hymns and carols. As long as the customer understands the limitations, and, as Jim indicated, the customer knows that the cost of the repairs will be more than the value of the instrument, we should consider doing partial restoration, and not just automatically trash the instrument.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 46.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-29-2020 21:47
    It's worth it when, after bringing it back and sitting down to play a bit, you see tears rolling down the cheeks...

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 47.  RE: Repinning with large tuning pins

    Posted 12-10-2020 15:12
    I would consider simply cleaning up the coils and seating the wire. This needs to be done after a stringing
    and perhaps is all that is missing.
    Fenton​

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    Fenton Murray, RPT

    Fenton
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