Pianotech

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Hi, Kym: From what I've heard on this list, most are doing a pitch raise if the note is around 8 cents flat or more. If you are tuning by ear, that would be about 1 bps at 440A. Since I use an ETD, I usually do a pitch raise pass if it's even 3 or 4 cents. If the strings appear very rusty, or the piano is very old and very flat, I might tune the first pass without overpull. That still leaves me flat when I'm done, and I'll probably use a standard overpull on a second pass. On very old pianos, I find if I use a standard overpull, I'll be underpulling on my next pass. They don't seem to respond like newer pianos for some reason. It will end up sharp. So, to avoid overstressing the strings, I'll get it close without overpull. I also am cautious to see if the piano needs to be tuned to A435 or some other non standard pitch. Sometimes, I'll just tune it to itself, aware that strings may break if I try to raise the pitch. Old piano means large uprights from early last century. I usually ask the customer about the history of the piano, how long it's been since it's last service, if it's been moved recently, etc. Then I'll know what to expect. Hope this helps. Paul McCloud San Diego
Original Message ----- From: "Kym Ng" To: "Paul McCloud" Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 11:16:57 PM Subject: [PTG Pianotech]: pitch raise Hi Friends, Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt? How much pitch drop? Age of the piano? Rusty strings?...etc. ------------------------------------------- [Kym] Ng] [CharisTune Piano Service] [San Jose] [CA] [kym@charistune.com] -------------------------------------------

A minor note of correction: 8 cents flat would be 2 beats per second-A 438, not A439. 1 beat per second at A440 = 4 cents, in other words.

-------------------------------------------
Allen Wright



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Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 03:27
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: pitch raise

Hi, Kym:
From what I've heard on this list, most are doing a pitch raise if the note is around 8 cents flat or more. If you are tuning by ear, that would be about 1 bps at 440A.  

Thanks, Allen.
Original Message ----- From: "Allen Wright" To: "Paul McCloud" Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 12:40:46 PM Subject: [PTG Pianotech]: RE:pitch raise A minor note of correction: 8 cents flat would be 2 beats per second-A 438, not A439. 1 beat per second at A440 = 4 cents, in other words. ------------------------------------------- Allen Wright -------------------------------------------

kym

Not sure what you are asking, but it appears you want to know how much you should charge for a pitch raise and a tuning.

A pitch raise requires at least 2 passes, plus a tuning. The first pass should only take about 10 or 15 minutes. The second pass a little longer as you trying to do a better tuning. The final tuning is like a normal tuning.

A charge for a pitch raise has nothing to do with the age of the piano, or if it has rusty strings. (They might be related, but has no bearing on the charge).  

-------------------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 02:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Thank you much for sharing your expertise. I should clarify my question. Sometimes I encounter pianos that are over 50 cents, 75 cents and 100 cents off. Most of them are like more that 40 + years old with some what rusty strings. If the first pass is not a overspull and the 2rd is a overspull follow by a fine tuning. Is it considered 1 pitch correction or two? For pianos way below pitch , I also would not overshot at the first pass just like many of you. I would explain to the client using the senerio of weight lifting training or exercise program. We all want to avoid injury,right? I would also explain to the client that another appt should be scheduled not too far apart, like in 6 mths. So, my questions are, do we in general deal with piano with less under pitch (20-40 cents) the same way or differently compare to those way below pitch. Do you charge differently? Thanks again. ------------------------------------------- [Kym] Ng] [CharisTune Piano Service] [San Jose] [CA] [kym@charistune.com] ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- [

Kym,

We all have different ways of dealing with this situation based. Most of us, most likely, charge based on how long it takes to accomplish the task. If we can get the piano to pitch and tuned in 60 minutes vs. 120 minutes, the total charge to the customer will probably be different for all of us. Here's what I try to do.

If a piano is more than 50 cents flat, I know that one pitch raise will probably result in sections of the piano will not respond equally by the time I finish, meaning that I will have to readjust the high treble for example. To save time, I do a "silent pitch raise." I sample a few notes as I begin the pitch raise, take note of how much I have to physically move the tuning lever, then I do the same for the rest of the piano without hitting the note. If I'm concerned about missing the mark too much, I'll check myself every few minutes with my ETD to recalibrate my corrections. 

Using this method I can get fairly close to where I need to be in less than 10 minutes. Based on how close the end result is, I either tune the piano or do a pitch raise with my ETD for more accuracy. 

It's nice to have more than one way to do a pitch adjustment.

-------------------------------------------
John Parham, RPT
Hickory, NC
828-244-2487
johnparham@piano88.com
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 05:14
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thank you much for sharing your expertise.

I should clarify my question. Sometimes I encounter pianos that are over 50 cents, 75 cents and 100 cents off. Most of them are like more that 40 + years old with some what rusty strings. If the first pass is not a overspull and the 2rd is a overspull follow by a fine tuning. Is it considered 1 pitch correction or two?

For pianos way below pitch , I also would not overshot at the first pass just like many of you. I would explain to the client using the senerio of weight lifting training or exercise program. We all want to avoid injury,right? I would also explain to the client that another appt should be scheduled not too far apart, like in 6 mths.

So, my questions are, do we in general deal with piano with less under pitch (20-40 cents) the same way or differently compare to those way below pitch.

Do you charge differently?

Thanks again.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------





-------------------------------------------


[

Hi Kym -
As an aural tuner, I will first do a rough tuning if the pitch is one or two beats below standard. It is not always necessary to perform a rough pass on the entire piano. Sometimes the tenor is at pitch while the treble has gone flat. If the piano is 50 cents or more flat I will assume that two rough passes are needed, followed by a fine tuning. The customer should be advised that the piano will probably need retuning in three or four months.
There are occasions when, because of age, rust, lack of use, etc., I will leave the piano flat and just tune to itself. For example: if Uncle Harry is visiting for Christmas and the family would like to have a sing-a-long. If there is a child taking lessons I will insist on a pitch raise (this is what is best for the child). If a pitch raise is not possible because of the piano's condition my advise is to replace the piano. In this latter case we, as technicians, are in a position of watching out for the best interest of the child in an area where the parent probably has no knowledge.  
Regarding the tuning fee - two passes are expected for any routine tuning. If a third pass is required it will be reflected in my tuning fee. 

-------------------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill MA
978-372-2250
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 02:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Kym,

"In general", that's what you asked, "in general".  Situations vary and protocols are refined accordingly.  Paul gave you a fairly detailed answer, but this is my "in general" answer...

I begin by listening to the piano in octaves and then measuring each A.  (the listening may catch anomalies that measuring 8 notes may miss).  Then if the piano is 7 cents or more flat or sharp, or if there is a 10 cent or more difference between As, (such as a -5 and a +5), I do a pitch raise.

If the piano is 30 cents or more flat or sharp, I'll figure on two pitch corrections before tuning.

If the piano is 100 cents or more flat or sharp, I'll start by (groaning, whining and rolling my eyes and then) overpulling 15 cents and then doing a calculated correction, remeasuring, and then deciding whether it should have yet another pitch correction or whether it's close enough to be tuned, taking into account the users of the piano and their needs, and the fact that this is likely to be a fairly unstable tuning anyway.

As I said, these are simply my "general" guidelines.  A lot of other factors work their way into the final decision algorithm, including input from the customer.

-------------------------------------------
John Dorr, RPT
Institute Director, Chicago 2013
Montana Chapter 594
Helena, MT
406-594-1985

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 02:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Greetingts,

Full disclosure, I work for CyberTuner.

In the modern world, computing power has solved the complexity of pitch correction.  The entire concept of a rough "pitch raise" followed by a fine tuning is an artifact of older limitations in tuning.  The idea is to build stability into a piano.  Every tuning should end up as close as possible to "in tune".  A fast pitch correction that vaguely approximates "in tune" is not enhancing stability.  Currently, CyberTuner will get you to "in tune" in one tuning from 20 cents away.  You always have the option of doing a second very fine tuning.

I understand that not everyone wants to use CyberTuner.  But really, all of these "seat of the pants" methods of correcting pitch are anachronistic.

My tempered 2 cents worth;-)

-------------------------------------------
Carl Lieberman
Venice CA
310-392-2771
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 02:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

I'll second what Carl said. One pass for anything within about 50 cents should yield a stable, very close tuning, acceptable to pretty much everybody (not quite recording studio, but maybe even that - I did a one pass 20 cent raise for a recording studio a couple weeks ago. Of course, a recording studio that would allow a 20 cent swing isn't absolutely top drawer). I would usually go back through and refine unisons a bit, those that needed it. But my norm is one pass, and that's at a high level of quality.

Pianos at the university are all typically 20-50-70 cents sharp beginning of every fall semester (and then drop in pitch fairly steadily through about February). Once upon a time I did two passes, and a lot of them (string rendering issues, false beats) would take as much as 2.5 hours. Today, it is one hour per piano, and the results are far better, and the tunings last until the RH goes south, with minor exceptions. The caveat is tuning technique, which needs to hone in directly to the stable spot for the pin and string, and that is something that is not easy to come by. But that skill is easier to acquire, IMO, using an ETD.

So pitch raise is pretty much a non-issue for me, until you get to 100 cents plus. Even then, it's no big deal.

I guess I'll add that I never did a real speedy first pass (again echoing what Carl was saying), but instead of a 10 - 15 minute "quickie" that some describe, more like a 30 - 40 minute "not sweating the details too much" but making sure it was solid. And I think that was a better approach, comparing my experiences with what I hear others discussing.

-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 12:12
From: Carl Lieberman
Subject: pitch raise

Greetingts,

Full disclosure, I work for CyberTuner.

In the modern world, computing power has solved the complexity of pitch correction.  The entire concept of a rough "pitch raise" followed by a fine tuning is an artifact of older limitations in tuning.  The idea is to build stability into a piano.  Every tuning should end up as close as possible to "in tune".  A fast pitch correction that vaguely approximates "in tune" is not enhancing stability.  Currently, CyberTuner will get you to "in tune" in one tuning from 20 cents away.  You always have the option of doing a second very fine tuning.

I understand that not everyone wants to use CyberTuner.  But really, all of these "seat of the pants" methods of correcting pitch are anachronistic.

My tempered 2 cents worth;-)

-------------------------------------------
Carl Lieberman
Venice CA
310-392-2771
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2013 02:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Friends,

Just wonder, in general, how do you justify if 2 or more pitch correction passes are needed in one service appt?  
How much pitch drop? 
Age of the piano?
Rusty strings?...etc.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Ed Foote RPT http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
Original Message----- From: Carl Lieberman >>The entire concept of a rough "pitch raise" followed by a fine tuning is an artifact of older limitations in tuning. The idea is to build stability into a piano. Every tuning should end up as close as possible to "in tune". A fast pitch correction that vaguely approximates "in tune" is not enhancing stability. Currently, CyberTuner will get you to "in tune" in one tuning from 20 cents away. << Greetings, I agree that technology has completely surpassed aural methods of pitch raising, but a 20 cent change is too much for me to sell as a finished tuning. I use a SAT. I suppose it depends on what "in tune" is taken to be. I am currently tuning 10 pianos together for a performance this weekend (Ballet Mechanique). New Disklaviers, huge raises. I been watching what is happening at the 20 and 30 cent lifts. It is normal for me to see a 20 cent raise leave behind a trail of unisons with all the right hand strings gradually moving sharp or flat, and the left hand strings doing the opposite. The resulting unisons are not commercially viable. I have always ascribed it to some strange flex of the bridge, or whatever, but the point is that it is not pins or strings moving, it is too consistent for that. If there is some way to compensate for this, via machine, I haven't found it and would earnestly like to learn it. Regards,

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Kym,

Be very careful talking pricing. This is still a PTG forum and we are bound by federal anti-trust laws, as I understand it. If we can't talk pricing in our PTG meetings, we should show similar restraint here.

-------------------------------------------
John Parham, RPT
Hickory, NC
828-244-2487
johnparham@piano88.com
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------- [Kym] Ng] [CharisTune Piano Service] [San Jose] [CA] [kym@charistune.com] ------------------------------------------- Got it. Thanks for the reminder. I am new and not familiar with all the rules yet. So I go by common sense and rule of courtesy and thought it's okay if just quoting as an example for the better illustration.
Original Message: Sent: 04-05-2013 06:39 From: John Parham Subject: pitch raise Kym, Be very careful talking pricing. This is still a PTG forum and we are bound by federal anti-trust laws, as I understand it. If we can't talk pricing in our PTG meetings, we should show similar restraint here. ------------------------------------------- John Parham, RPT Hickory, NC 828-244-2487 johnparham@piano88.com -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17 From: Kym Ng Subject: pitch raise Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me. I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise. I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up. To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up. Can one pitch correction be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet. I am working one it. I know some of you price your work using a hour rate, but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change. E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass. So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that. I price my work using the second way. Is this considered a fair pricing practice? ------------------------------------------- [Kym] Ng] [CharisTune Piano Service] [San Jose] [CA] [kym@charistune.com] -------------------------------------------

"Professor" Stilwell doesn't mind quoting prices.

-------------------------------------------
Roger Aycock, RPT, TEC
Marietta, GA
rogerspiano@bellsouth.net
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 06:39
From: John Parham
Subject: pitch raise

Kym,

Be very careful talking pricing. This is still a PTG forum and we are bound by federal anti-trust laws, as I understand it. If we can't talk pricing in our PTG meetings, we should show similar restraint here.

-------------------------------------------
John Parham, RPT
Hickory, NC
828-244-2487
johnparham@piano88.com
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Thank you :)  I have learned a lot.  I hope someday I will be able to contribute to the list like you guys.

-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 11:56
From: Roger Aycock
Subject: pitch raise

"Professor" Stilwell doesn't mind quoting prices.

-------------------------------------------
Roger Aycock, RPT, TEC
Marietta, GA
rogerspiano@bellsouth.net
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 06:39
From: John Parham
Subject: pitch raise

Kym,

Be very careful talking pricing. This is still a PTG forum and we are bound by federal anti-trust laws, as I understand it. If we can't talk pricing in our PTG meetings, we should show similar restraint here.

-------------------------------------------
John Parham, RPT
Hickory, NC
828-244-2487
johnparham@piano88.com
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

Hi Kym -
It is certainly true that we should not be discussing specific pricing matters in this forum. However, there are some philosophical aspects to pricing that can be addressed. You might want to read William Blees's book "Business of Piano Tuning". He makes a very thoughtful presentation of running a piano service business and includes some discussion on on pricing. I don't agree with everything he says, but it is very worthwhile reading.
Whatever you charge and however you decide to set your rates, keep in mind that is not your fault if a piano has been neglected. If tuning requires more time than usual it is perfectly reasonable for you to charge more based on your hourly rate.

-------------------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill MA
978-372-2250
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------

It's appropriate here to mention the Field Estimate Guide by Newton Hunt (available from PTG Bookstore)
and The G Pianoworks Guide by Joe Garrett (available from Randy Potter School)

These guides estimate the time an experienced and competent technician will need to complete a task.
This gives you an estimate of the fair price for the task.
If an experienced technician would do a job in one hour, you should charge an experienced hourly rate times one hour for the task.
You  cannot honestly charge five times as much because it took you five times longer.
This approach is very fair. You will automatically earn a fair hourly rate for your work as you learn on the job.


-------------------------------------------
Ed Sutton
Editor
Piano Technicians Journal
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926

-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-06-2013 11:45
From: Gerry Johnston
Subject: pitch raise

Hi Kym -
It is certainly true that we should not be discussing specific pricing matters in this forum. However, there are some philosophical aspects to pricing that can be addressed. You might want to read William Blees's book "Business of Piano Tuning". He makes a very thoughtful presentation of running a piano service business and includes some discussion on on pricing. I don't agree with everything he says, but it is very worthwhile reading.
Whatever you charge and however you decide to set your rates, keep in mind that is not your fault if a piano has been neglected. If tuning requires more time than usual it is perfectly reasonable for you to charge more based on your hourly rate.

-------------------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill MA
978-372-2250
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2013 01:17
From: Kym Ng
Subject: pitch raise

Thanks you for taking the time explaining this to me.  I admire you guys' ability to aurally pitch raise.
I usually think one pitch collection includes 2 passes (one overpull + one fine tuning) plus a touch up.
To me 2 pitch corrections include 3 passes (one without overpull + one overpull + one fine tuning) and a touch up.

Can one pitch correction  be considered safe (means not much risking breaking strings) and effective (provided  the piano has a reasonably tight pin block) for a piano that is > 75 cents or even 100 cents below pitch? Or is 2-pitch-correction a better practice? I am not tuning fast like many of you yet.  I am working one it.

I know some of you price your work using a hour rate,  but I also see some piano technicians price it using additional change.  E.g. $30 for each pitch correction pass.  So, if 2 pitch collection passes were needed, $60 would be added to the basic tuning charge or something like that.  I price my work using the second way.  Is this considered a fair pricing practice?


-------------------------------------------
[Kym] Ng]
[CharisTune Piano Service]
[San Jose] [CA]
[kym@charistune.com]
-------------------------------------------