Hello all,
I saw this discussion and had some recent very good results but they were because of a number of factors. Fresh product from a local hobby store that sells lots of it (the brand name was Jet but it is the freshness that counts) application directly from a small bottle, (transferring the product to an applicator begins to activated it before application), minimal, not maximal application (one full ounce for the entire pinblock), a targeted and specific need all lead to the most successful application I have ever done.
What I noticed from reading some of the posts was that people with relatively little experience were giving advice. There is a right way and a wrong way to do anything. Please read on, if you are interested, this post of which the text only was taken from Piano World Forums. There were photos but only the captions appear here. If you would also like to see the photos, you may do so at:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2277261/20.html The reference to the name, "Lucas" is a young man who is learning piano technology at this time.
Yesterday, I spent the full day with Lucas on a Kawai RX-5 Grand piano at a high school near where Lucas lives but not the one that he attends. It is the Choir room piano and it is used very heavily. It is about 10 years old, maybe a little less. It is a fine example of a modern grand piano by a fine manufacturer. Having said that, the extreme conditions of dryness in Winter and high humidity in Summer can tale their toll on any piano, even the most expensive. It developed two large cracks in the soundboard some years ago. It does have a humidity control system but anytime I ever saw the piano, it was not plugged in even though the choir teacher always claimed that it "usually is".
Anytime I was ever asked to tune the piano, it was always extremely off pitch, either sharp or flat. A few years ago, it began to have some loose tuning pin issues and within the last year, some tuning pins in the Bass became uncontrollable. They would not hold at all. The rest of the piano only required normal and typical service. Perhaps even less than many other makes because the synthetic parts that Kawai uses and the high quality key bushing material tend to maintain alignment and regulation far longer than many other makes in a similar price range.
My hat is off to those fine technicians who are full scale rebuilders and who regularly replace pinblocks, even some who actually make new soundboards (as there is one here in Madison) and who do the highest level of craftsmanship that there is in the piano technology field. It is not their domain to seek remedies for such a piano as this. The cost of a new pinblock and restringing would closely approach or exceed the value of this instrument.
For an otherwise still quite good piano in most respects, it is therefore a case for some strong but effective "medicine" that will cure its otherwise terminal condition. However, I was not about to just "slobber" on some CA glue to this piano. I saw the opportunity to perform a far more effective and cosmetically invisible application. That was to turn the piano upside down and apply the CA glue through the holes in the bottom of the pinblock. For that, I would need a crew.
I could get Lucas and Andy (Cinnomonbear) from nearby Rockford, Illinois and one of Lucas' tall and strong high school buddies (who is also a musician and is interested in pipe organ tuning and servicing) to help. You can't just "flip" a large grand piano over very easily! It takes three or four strong people. Andy, who is a house painter and handyman, also had some convenient drop cloths and some 2X4 lumber which came in handy.
The following is a photo essay of the project with the photos that I took. Lucas also has some good photos too, particularly that show the condition of the hammers before reshaping. The tone, as it was, was overly bright and the one "buzz" on A#2 was diagnosed as one of the bichord strings striking the edge of the bridge on a forte or louder blow. The edge of the bridge was rounded off with a small file at that point.
The action was removed as well as the pedal lyre and the piano taken off of its truck.
The action was placed on two convenient tables. From this view, it does not look so bad and it wasn't because it has been well maintained but had undergone 9 months of heavy use.
The left front leg was removed and the corner lowered gently to the floor protected by drop cloths. This is the first step in any grand piano moving procedure.
This view shows the left corner of the piano on the floor while looking past the action as it was. Not really very bad at all, just a slightly irregular hammer line and hammer spacing irregularities too small to even be seen from this photo. The piano seemed to play "normally" as it was but I knew it needed maintenance before it got "bad".
The next step was to place the piano on its spine. Later, after the pinblock treatment, when the piano returned to that position, it was blown free of any loose dust, lint and small debris. It had been 9 months since it had been cleaned, so from the photo, it does not appear very dirty but a significant amount of accumulation did come out, even though the piano is always stored with a full cover on it.
Interior cleaning of a piano is not the owner's, the housekeeper's or the custodian's task or responsibility. It is solely the duty of the piano technician. Unfortunately, it is quite often neglected and excuses are made for that neglect until it becomes an untenable problem. The piano literally becomes "too dirty to clean". Cleaning would be a major undertaking in itself and therefore the excuse for not doing it is perpetuated. "Wouldn't there be this huge cloud of dust that would come out of it!?" Nothing short of Hiroshima, I am sure.
The piano is upside down on the floor! Few piano owners could imagine it. It is not easy and when I told the choir teacher what we would have to do, her eyes widened and her mouth opened. I reassured her that it would be done all very professionally, however. I just needed the right people on hand to do it.
I showed the young men how to apply the CA glue and they did it. It is certainly not anything difficult to do in itself, just a few drops to each tuning pin hole. It is something anyone could do if properly instructed and under the proper circumstances.
Each young man had a 1/2 ounce bottle of CA glue and they were instructed to apply it to each hole and to be perhaps a little more generous with the Bass section if there was any left over. There was only enough for one dose to each hole, so we let it go at that and would see later what the results were.
As I view it, it is like a potent drug that could be administered to treat an illness. The amount of the drug depends upon the severity of the illness and the size and weight of the patient. It is always a guess. If a first administration of the remedy is helpful but not quite enough, then some more may be just right. Too much may overdo the effect and create another problem.
As it turns out, the minimal application of just one ounce of CA glue to the entire pinblock yielded a truly remarkable effect! All of the tuning pins had what I would call a completely normal feel and response to them! There was significant resistance but no "snappy", "cracking" or "jumpy" feel to them. Just a completely normal feel that would make anyone forget that there had ever been a problem!
The only question to myself was what the effect may have been with a second dose of another full ounce of CA glue after the first had soaked in? Would it have resulted in extremely tight tuning pins as we often find in some new Asian pianos? That very tight, jumpy and cracking feel as the pin moves? We surely expect that any such piano will never have loose tuning pins but we also hope for the day when it will break in to where we can tune it more easily and normally.
The CA glue had been allowed to set in and cure for about 4 hours before any tuning was attempted, so it is assumed that it was fully cured (especially with the current humid weather). It was such a remarkably normal feel, neither too tight or slightly loose or "jumpy" in any manner at all that I wonder if the treatment applied yesterday would eventually "wear out" and another, heavier dose might be required in the future? Only time will tell but if another application does need to be made in a few years, it can certainly be doubled up.
In any case, I will be hoping that the one time, one ounce, cosmetically invisible application to the underside of the pinblock in this instance will be the one and only time that this kind of treatment was necessary. If so, it will not be unlike the 20, 25 and 30 year old string splices that were made and that still hold up. The piano can wear out in other respects but the tuning pins still remain controllable after only one such light dose of good medicine. I will keep my fingers crossed.
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William Bremmer
Madison WI
608-238-8400
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2014 08:32
From: Kevin Magill
Subject: CA Glue for Pin Tightening
There has bee a bit of discussion on proper application of CA glue to help increase torque on tuning pins in pinblocks. I have usually used larger tuning pins to correct low torque yet am open to try the CA glue which I have never done before. I am a field piano tech so do not work in the shop environment. Could just those of you who have used CA glue give me your best techniques for applying this. I carry low viscosity CA glue in my toolkit. I carry pipe cleaners also. Anyone have any success with taking pins out and doping the inside of the pinblock holes using pipe cleaners to tighten pins? Or can the CA glue simply be applied around the perimeter of an existing pin to "soak down in"? Also with grands, how best have you had success? Do you need to tape off the hole underneath, if it exists in the pinblock before applying? I love innovations in piano tech, and am willing to try all things new if I feel the consequences will not be a detriment over a "20 year" remaining lifespan of a piano before a necessary "50 year life" rebuild would be mandated for its continued existence as a musical instrument. Any constructive suggests you may have, I most welcome
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Kevin Magill
Williamsburg VA
757-220-2420
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