Geoff,
Thanks very much...you beat me to it...after 86 entries, many of them
repetitive, this thread was past useful.
I listened to the provided samples through both of my main audio
systems...both easily capable of reproducing the required 30Hz (and
lower) at SPLs most people would find painful; and found things pretty
much as you describe them.
Devin,
You've had numerous valuable suggestions from a number of folks who,
like myself, have spent many years doing the tuning and related
technical support in major venues for situations like you describe. So
far, all we've had for our trouble is, essentially, being told how
little we understand the problem. While there may be some puzzlement
with your inability to recognize that whatever solution you appear to
have in mind may not, in fact, exist, there is no disrespect involved.
I do find myself wondering what model Helpinstill you are using, where
it is placed, and what signal processors (and settings on them) you use
to create such a unique piano sound.
If you ever do find a way out of this briar patch, please do let us know
so that we can use what you learn for the help and advantage of others.
Thank you very much.
Kind regards.
Horace
On 8/29/2015 10:34 PM, Geoff Sykes via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
>
>
> OK, I listened to these samples and I'm very tempted to call you out as a troll. Both samples sound like a bass heavy stereo from the neighbors upstairs. My guess is that they contain only the bass Helpinstill pickup channel and nothing else. First of all, without hearing that one channel in context with the rest of the piano there is NO way to interpret what you are pretending to do. And as far as.... "The tone of the pianos must not be sacrificed, and I work on the basis of as little maintenance as possible - I'm quick in, quick out, don't fuss too much...", you lie. The samples you provided are processed so heavily that even someone who doesn't know what their listening to would probably be annoyed but the pumping of your over-compression and gating. These samples are not at all what I would consider clean, powerful bass.
>
>
> On the other hand, I'm not surprised by the quality coming out of the Helpinstill pickup. It is, afterall, a pickup much like one you would find on a solid body electric guitar, and not a mic. You are asking it to perform far outside its intended use. No wonder you are having problems.
>
>
> -- GS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Geoff Sykes, RPT
> Los Angeles CA
> ------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-26-2015 09:34
> From: Devin Sheets
> Subject: Eliminate Sustain Pedal Thump
>
>
>
>
> Crowd sourcing indeed, and the internet helps tremendously to connect passionate people. I'm very thankful for all of the wonderful input I have received on this project.
>
>
> I don't have an incredibly specific application, but over the last 15 years or so I've encountered this problem time and again and wish to finally solve it. The last straw was a gig I did recently involving several grand pianos on stage all playing at once. The problem was of course magnified, and the typical pseudo-solutions involving EQ and mic placement just don't work when all you have is the piano sound and the content incorporates pop/rock styles as well as classical. The tone of the pianos must not be sacrificed, and I work on the basis of as little maintenance as possible - I'm quick in, quick out, don't fuss too much, and don't ask all that much from people. I get minimal sound checks, minimal interaction with artists, and yet the amplified sound is usually about 98% of the total sound the audience hears - I can't rely on the acoustic energy of the piano or hall to help me out if I'm not doing a good job, most events are outdoors anyway.
>
>
> My clients like a very big piano sound, with lots of clean powerful bass; they really want people to "feel" the low notes. In an effort to avoid feedback, I use cardioid subwoofers and I dedicate a Helpinstill pickup to the low strings. I have a Yamaha C3 and these are some audio samples of me playing a bit... you'll need studio headphones or a good subwoofer to hear the issue.
>
>
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OK, I listened to these samples and I'm very tempted to call you out as a troll. Both samples sound like a bass heavy stereo from the neighbors upstairs. My guess is that they contain only the bass Helpinstill pickup channel and nothing else. First of all, without hearing that one channel in context with the rest of the piano there is NO way to interpret what you are pretending to do. And as far as.... "The tone of the pianos must not be sacrificed, and I work on the basis of as little maintenance as possible - I'm quick in, quick out, don't fuss too much...", you lie. The samples you provided are processed so heavily that even someone who doesn't know what their listening to would probably be annoyed but the pumping of your over-compression and gating. These samples are not at all what I would consider clean, powerful bass.
On the other hand, I'm not surprised by the quality coming out of the Helpinstill pickup. It is, afterall, a pickup much like one you would find on a solid body electric guitar, and not a mic. You are asking it to perform far outside its intended use. No wonder you are having problems.
-- GS
------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2015 09:34
From: Devin Sheets
Subject: Eliminate Sustain Pedal Thump
Crowd sourcing indeed, and the internet helps tremendously to connect passionate people. I'm very thankful for all of the wonderful input I have received on this project.
I don't have an incredibly specific application, but over the last 15 years or so I've encountered this problem time and again and wish to finally solve it. The last straw was a gig I did recently involving several grand pianos on stage all playing at once. The problem was of course magnified, and the typical pseudo-solutions involving EQ and mic placement just don't work when all you have is the piano sound and the content incorporates pop/rock styles as well as classical. The tone of the pianos must not be sacrificed, and I work on the basis of as little maintenance as possible - I'm quick in, quick out, don't fuss too much, and don't ask all that much from people. I get minimal sound checks, minimal interaction with artists, and yet the amplified sound is usually about 98% of the total sound the audience hears - I can't rely on the acoustic energy of the piano or hall to help me out if I'm not doing a good job, most events are outdoors anyway.
My clients like a very big piano sound, with lots of clean powerful bass; they really want people to "feel" the low notes. In an effort to avoid feedback, I use cardioid subwoofers and I dedicate a Helpinstill pickup to the low strings. I have a Yamaha C3 and these are some audio samples of me playing a bit... you'll need studio headphones or a good subwoofer to hear the issue.