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metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

  • 1.  metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Member
    Posted 12-19-2015 22:40

       I was tuning a Yamaha C3 Grand in a local church on Friday and kept picking up a very annoying metallic/bell sound  in 

       the bass at E2.  The piano is in excellent condition and very stable and the hvac is very consistent and comfortable. RH was in the 40's which is very good in a church here. I am looking for suggestions to quiet or eliminate this sound . I have read various suggestions made in other posts both here and on the piano world technician forum but did not see replies that any of the suggestions worked. My first thoughts are to check the string level and termination , bridge pin tightness, hammer to string contact and stringing cloth on the waste end. Another thought is to first swap the hammer from a neighbor to see if it is in the hammer.

      I am returning to the scene on Monday and would at least like to try to reduce the sound but would ideally want to eliminate it. Any help or ideas would be great.

       

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-19-2015 22:45

    James

     

    It might just need some voicing. Swapping the hammer will tell. Seating the string is also a possible solution.  






  • 3.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-20-2015 00:31

    The "noise" could be in just one of the wound strings. Listen to each string carefully. Then you can voice the part of hammer that contact the noisy string. Of course, the first thing is to make sure the hammer is striking both strings in unison phase, (leveling and fitting hammers to strings at strike). 

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431



  • 4.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Posted 12-20-2015 07:23

    Does the sound stop instantly when you damp the string? If so, it is probably in the string system. If it rings on, look elsewhere.

    Strum across the strings with dampers down to listen for a slightly leaking sympathetic string. Could be a partial of A0.

    Tap the plate struts, listening for the bell. Fix by adding weight to the ringing strut.

    To test for horizontal mode, lower the pitch of the string. If the pitch of the bell sound does not change, it is a horizontal mode vibration, and can only be fixed by replacing the string.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 5.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Member
    Posted 12-20-2015 08:44

      Excellent suggestions to try and add to my bag of magic. Merry Christmas to all.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357



  • 6.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-21-2015 00:57
    I tuned a Yamaha C-3 a few years ago, pulled the action and vacuumed everything out, put it back together, and got a call back about a ringing sound that had never been there before. I went back, and, sure enough, there was a ringing sound. Long story short, it turned out to be one of the Micky Mouse Ear pin block screws whose ears were vibrating. I loosened it about a quarter of a turn to take some tension off, and the sound went away.

    -Danny Lyons-
    Pensacola, Florida




  • 7.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-21-2015 01:04

    Danny

     

    You're going to have to explain this one to me, Danny






  • 8.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Member
    Posted 12-21-2015 07:56

    Wim,

    He means the cheek block screws (with the "mickey mouse" ears), not the pin block.

    Deb

    ------------------------------
    Debra Legg
    Rockport MA
    www.debraleggpiano.com



  • 9.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-21-2015 12:38

    That makes more sense.






  • 10.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-22-2015 15:22
    Yes. Cheek block screws. Sorry.

    -Danny-
    Sent from my iPhone 5S




  • 11.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Posted 12-21-2015 09:11

    I was tuning the Knabe grand, in time for their Christmas cantata, in the choir loft in a church's large quiet sanctuary and heard the same bell like tones. After some investigation I found that the three tables across from the piano and hidden behind the organ chamber, where the hand bell choir had their bells set up had one table that didn't have the pad all the way on and several of the bells were sitting on the bare wood and were giving a sympathetic vibration when I hit certain notes while tuning. It only drove me nuts for a minute or two because I couldn't figure out where in the piano the sound was coming from after I did most of the tricks we all do to isolate the ringing sound.

    At first I just assumed that Santa and his reindeer were just flying by and shaking their Jingle Bells.

    "Happy Holidays, May the merry bells keep ringing, Happy Holidays to You! "

    Bob - farmhouseview@gmail.com

    .

    ------------------------------
    Robert Highfield
    Lancaster PA



  • 12.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-20-2015 14:14

    To add weight to stop a ringing strut use magnets.  Large square magnets are available from Ace Hardware.  Paint the magnets gold to match once the number of magnets is determined.  Yamahas have this problem occasionally, but I'm not saying that's your problem.  Ed's advice is dead on.

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    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD



  • 13.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-21-2015 01:33
    I have found that sometimes horizontal-mode issues can be dealt with by putting a very thin piece of leather (<.010") between the string and the terminating bridge pin. After bringing to tension, this can be trimmed away so that it is almost invisible. I believe this is consistent with some of the recent findings and patents regarding longitudinal mode control. 

    This kind of thing is done with other string instruments like violins, also.

    YMMV


    Keith Akins, RPT
    Piano Technologist
    715/775-0022 Mon-Sat 9a-9p





  • 14.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-20-2015 11:17
    First, be sure it isn't the "dreaded" longitudinal wave in the string.
    Try lowering the tension on the string to the next lower note. If it
    goes away the sound is probably coming from the string itself. If that
    is the case, you'll have to do something to the string, even to the
    point of changing it. Consult with an experienced string maker such as
    James Arledge about this before you something to the hammer you can't undo.




  • 15.  RE: metallic or bell sound-Yamaha C3

    Posted 12-20-2015 13:27
    Might it be something like a 'snare drum' problem? i.e. something vibrating sympathetically outside of the C3?  Michael  UK