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Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

  • 1.  Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 06:34

    Hi everyone. I hope this never happens to you.

    Gentleman called me to tune his Kawai console that hasn't been tuned in many years..his words. Set up the appointment..

    I arrive at the home..he's not there, but the wife is. He's working and will not make it to the home before I'm done. So far, nothing out of the ordinary.

    The next day i get an email from this gentleman telling me the piano sounds worse now than before it was tuned...and he tells me he has a good ear for these things, AND he is putting a stop payment on the check. I respond back saying I'm sorry you're not happy with my work..I want to make it better. Stop payment is not necessary..let's make an appointment SOON to come over and make it right. No reply.

    I called his home 2 days later stating the above..let me have a chance to make it right. No reply

    2 days later I call his office..something I never do(call a client's business) unless asked to. State the same thing..let's make it right. No reply.

    He cancelled the check. So, for whatever his bank charges for a cancelled check, he got a tuning. I called 2 guys locally to find out if they received a call from this gentleman..no they had not heard anything, but will be on the lookout for him.

    A first for me in 20 years in the business. Not a pleasant experience. I hope it manages to avoid you.

    ------------------------------
    -Phil Bondi
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 07:23

    That's pretty darn sorry!

    He probably knows it's not worth your time to file a lawsuit against him. Grrrrr…  Deflate all his tires when he's at work?

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS



  • 3.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 09:05
    Stop Payments are around $25.00, so he got an excellent tuning for only $25.00.   He is one to let all the local tuners in your area know his name (including the non members).
     
    Ken Gerler
     
    Gerler Piano & Organ Service
    12425 Parkwood Lane
    Florissant, MO 63033-4662
    kenneth.gerler@prodigy.net
    314-355-2339





  • 4.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 09:16
    Phil

    Check with Florida Attorney Office. In some states what this guy did is against the law. Just think if all consumers would be allowed to do this a lot of consumers would take advantage of professions like ours.

    Wim

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 5.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 09:40
    I wouldn't presume evil intent, but there's plenty of evidence for
    ignorance, faulty thinking, and paranoia. All it takes is some "expert"
    like the neighbor who plays, or the piano teacher they know, to judge it
    bad. Being the expert pretty much guarantees a negative judgement,
    proving expertise. Since none of them know the difference, but no one
    will admit to ignorance, it must be a bad tuning. You know how service
    class people are, right? I've had it happen a few times and just gave
    them back their check. After a while, they realized that a crook would
    have cashed it immediately, rather than returning it. A couple, I never
    heard from again, and a couple of others sent me back the check after
    thinking it over. They became regular customers.

    It's people. You can't win whatever you do, so you just try to do right
    by your own criteria and marvel at what others do and think. The smart
    ones will understand.
    Ron N




  • 6.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 10:03

    I like your approach too, Ron.  In most cases you may get a good idea of their intent in talking to them.

    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Sharpsburg GA
    770-253-5083



  • 7.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Member
    Posted 01-23-2016 09:47

    I have not had stop payments done but it could happen to anyone. If you put the check in the bank right away you will get paid. My bank charges $36 to stop payment- a total rip off but that is a story for another day.

    I have had the whining from customers as we all have. In my mind the problem is due to the client having got used to the sound of their neglected piano and then telling you that you "ruined" it. I ran into this with a guy that had a Steinway grand that had not been cared for . I recall that i had to do several pitch raises to tame it and I also recommended he address the issue of high humidity , get his loose keys rebushed, have a good action regulation and replace hammers etc. . He claimed that I "ruined" his piano.

    The second case was a neglected Samick grand sitting in a room leading to the back yard. Short notice to work on it for a fund raiser. The piano was wild and all over the place . Lots of jack hangups and I did a bunch of repinning and put chaulk marks on the notes. A few days later get a callback that more notes are jamming.

     . The piano serial number was in the range of those with the center pin plating problem YC and Samick had . I told the client that I would lubricate the action centers to get the piano through things but that the solution would be to repin the action and it would be very expensive. Well guess what , she contacts me after the event and lays into me that the piano sounded terrible, it was worse then before, parts where sticking etc and accused me of making it that way. I had detailed records of what I did and recommended and would have won in small claims court. I offered to come back and fix anything I had done but that I was not going to re-pin the piano or re-tune it. I asked her to give me a list and I would come anytime to make it right. I reached out several times and left messages. Had I not put the check in the bank I have the sense she would have stopped payment.  As it is she probably told her circle of friends not to hire me. You never know what slander gets spread on social media but if you do good work it will stand up in court and in life.

    I would be careful spreading someone's name around . Perhaps a writing and mailing a brief note sent to the client explaining what you did to the piano and why clients often think their piano was ruined when in fact they had been so used to the sound of it out of tune . If he has more specific issues request that he list them. I also recommend that people read the Piano Book and I spend a lot of time doing customer education especially with pianos needing a pitch raise. For some customers I offer to show them how I test the pitch and I will demonstrate with the Sanderson electronic tuning fork how far off the piano is from A440.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357



  • 8.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 09:56

    that's a very unpleasant situation Phil.  I don't think anything can be done about it though and if there might be something you can do, it will probably cost you time and aggravation;  too much negative energy.  Sharing his name and address with colleagues is probably the best option.

    I had something similar happen some 8 years ago:  This person owned a construction company and had found an old home which he bought in order to gut it and rebuild it.  In it was this very old Hobart M Cable piano (serial no 7043, so very early), and he thought he had struck gold with this antique.  He asked me to inspect the piano on site.  Upon arrival he wasn't there, only some construction workers.  I called him, he told me to contact his wife who was working nearby at a bank.  She then said she would be there in 30 minutes;  could I just start with the inspection? 45 minutes later I was done and still nobody showed up. They said they would send the check but of course never did, most likely because the piano was not worth all the money they thought it would be.

    This happened the second year of being in business and it bothered me a lot and I remember spending way too much time on this negative issue.  It will happen to many of us and that's just part of the business.   Out of the roughly 3,500 appointments I have made, it only happened twice.

    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Sharpsburg GA
    770-253-5083



  • 9.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 13:00

    I have only had one similar case in my entire career. 

    Customer had Steinway grand, never tuned in 30 years. He was used RV salesmen and some sort of "Faith Healer". Proudly proclaimed he played by ear only and only he could play ragtime rhythm correct. He also stopped payment on my check claiming, "You ruined the tone!" 

    The first piano store I worked in was Gene Armstrong Pianos. Gene didn't tune but he was very knowledgable about pianos and piano service. He told me I would run into someone sometime who would only like the tone of an out of tune piano. He said you can tell them by how they usually describe their tone preferences as, "I will know it when I find the piano I like but I don't know how to define it". Gene said, "they will reject nicely tuned pianos and only begin to smile when they hear one with lots of wavers in the sound".

    So the distribution amongst "pianists" who require an out of tune piano by the evidence here is very low in the general population.

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431



  • 10.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 14:45

    Well, there was the lady who, after a massive pitch raise, held down the right pedal with both feet, all the way through her simplified version of "Memories," then announced "This is no good. You made fa sound like la."

    That was a long time ago, and far away. Probably washed into the Gulf by Katrina.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 11.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 14:53

    Well, there was the lady who, after a massive pitch raise, held down the right pedal with both feet, all the way through her simplified version of "Memories," then announced "This is no good. You made fa sound like la."

    That was a long time ago, and far away. Probably washed into the Gulf by Katrina.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 12.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 13:33

    Phil, my condolences. I had one like this about fifteen years ago, though the details differ somewhat.

    She lived 90 minutes away, and she apparently decided my fee was too high (higher than her previous tuner, then deceased) but instead of canceling the appointment she let me do it while emitting huge negative vibes. I fixed some stuff on her piano, too, which he hadn't, after I carefully explained them to her, and for free. About halfway through, she pleaded illness and went upstairs, leaving me to let myself out. Well, it would explain some of the negative vibes ..... NOT. She just didn't want me to have the slightest chance of being there when she tried the tuning, so I would have no chance to try to "make it right." Not that it needed "making right."

    She then found a tuner on the coast I had never even realized was there, even further away from her than me, and she hired him to tell her what was wrong with the tuning and write it out for me, and then demanded my fee back. Not much was wrong with the tuning, but he tried to comply.

    I wasn't having any. We had two or three altercations by U.S. Mail. I told her that it was obvious that before I even arrived she had decided my fee was too high (it wasn't), so she purposefully set up a situation where I would have no chance to make any problems right, in order to cheat me. I told her that if she had decided she didn't want to pay me, she would have been able to tell me she didn't want me to tune for her, even after I arrived at her door. Instead she was trying to steal my work.

    It was such a miserable psychological space to inhabit that I ended up sending her the demanded refund, though I was quite crabby about it. I wrote "unjustified refund" right on my check. I told her that I wouldn't tell anyone about what she had done, to spare her reputation, but if I heard that she was talking about me, I would tell everyone exactly what she had done and what I thought of it. I never heard a peep. She was older than me, so she's probably gone now --- thankfully.

    One other tuning went very wrong, when someone connected with a restaurant hired me to tune there, then collected my fee from management but didn't send it on to me.

    Thirty eight years in this business, and I have been cheated out of my fee exactly twice. We really are lucky with our clientele, so friendly and honest.

    ------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 13.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 15:07

    Gosh darn, I hate it when that happens.  Mine was a newspaper reporter who called me in a drunken stupor at 10:30 pm saying he was going to cancel my check and good luck with small claims court.  He said I was ripping off the public and this reflected very poorly on the music store that had recommended me and he was considering writing  a story about it. 

    This was a million years ago, of course, but I believe he did get canned from the newspaper not long after that. It's the only stop payment story I have (in 34 years). There have been a couple Herculean collection stories though-- thankfully those things don't happen often.

    ------------------------------
    Barbara Richmond, RPT
    near Peoria, Illinois



  • 14.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2016 15:19

    Hi Phil

    ive run into some doozies myself, and often think about listing them so my fellow technicians and rebuilders can save a lot of heartburn. 

    I'm wondering if there would be legal implications to such a list. 

    ------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com



  • 15.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-25-2016 08:42
    Hi David Estey, I agree that you are on the right track. I see no problem at all with verbally communicating with our friends & colleagues when something like this happens--especially with those we have built a relationship with. However, doing it in writing, electronic media, etc is very dangerous ground!
    My big story was about 4 years ago at a fairly well known Nursing nearby. Got one of those "emergency calls" - other tech couldn't fix the noises, sticking keys, and they were not happy with the tuning. Please take care of it! We will write you s check. I invoiced them, followed up with 2 or 3 personal visits, etc-very kindly inquiring about the payment (about $300 ) each time. They kept saying they were working with "CORPORATE" in Dallas. Don't you just LOVE that phrase?! About 90 days down the road, they finally admitted that "somehow corporate mailed your check to the other technician that did the (bad) work!! Just ended up letting go. Not worth the energy!

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 16.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 15:57

    After I tuned the piano, the rich lady said she would mail me a check. Two weeks later, she told me the check was in the mail. Two weeks after that, her maid answered the phone and said that the mistress was in Europe. It was obvious that the lady lied and had no intentions of paying this bill. 

    I went back to the house. The maid was carrying groceries from her car to the house and I even helped her. I told the maid that I would like to finish off the tuning. She led me right to the piano.

    SO . . . I finished off the tuning, alright. I un-tuned the piano, rendering it unplayable. I said goodbye to the maid and she thanked me for coming. 

    A week later, the woman called in a rage, screaming, "What did you do to the piano?"

    In a quiet tone of voice, I said, "You failed to pay me, so I simply took my tuning back."  

    What could she say? She knew what she did.

    Fortunately, this was an isolated case. People have been great to me over the years.

    ------------------------------
    Lucille Rains
    Franklin Lakes NJ
    201-337-7228



  • 17.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 16:52

    Lucille,

    This strikes me as dangerous behavior for your reputation, and perhaps for your PTG chapter, if your got-you-back response to a mean customer became associated with the organization.

    As businesses go, we have it easy, and most of us have very few bad customer experiences to report. Eye-for-an-eye behavior tends to dig us in deeper, when our best option is to omit ourselves from the situation as quickly and simply as possible.

    I hope you never have such a situation again, and that your customers all love your work and pay you well!

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 18.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 08:43
    Ed Sutton, the incident I mentioned took place before I even knew there was a PTG and it didn't seem to affect my reputation at all. I doubt that this dishonest woman would tell the world that she cheated her piano tuner. 
     
    In my opinion, when you do nothing about an obvious fraud, you are encouraging that fraud. What I did was not done spitefully, but logically. It is legal to repossess what a buyer doesn't pay for. Why should it be any different with a tuning? My work is my product. If she wouldn't pay, it wasn't hers. And too, I probably did a good deed for her next tuner. I doubt that she would try to cheat the next one. 
     
    The first time I tuned for Les Paul, he said, "Send the bill to the record company." They were going to record in his professional home recording studio. I said, "YOU called me, YOU pay me. I'm not going to chase after a New York recording company." I got paid on the spot, but I didn't expect to ever hear from him again. I was wrong. Not only did he call again, he called for the next 25-30 years, right up to his death. In fact, when I moved, I forgot to give him my new number, so he called my daughter to find out where I was.  
     
    While Ed Sutton's response was good and honorable in regards to repossessing a tuning, I have a feeling that deep down, most tuners felt like Scott Kerns, they LOVED IT!  
     
     





  • 19.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 11:36

    Lucille,

    except that you went into her home, not invited to do so, so it would be considered trespassing (unlawful entry of her home).

    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Sharpsburg GA
    770-253-5083



  • 20.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-25-2016 01:24
    Petrus, I didn't just walk in, I was invited in by the maid. And I told her my intentions, "I came to finish off the piano."

    Also, if the woman didn't have something to hide, such as perpetrating a fraud, he would have been free to press charges.





  • 21.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 17:08

    "In a quiet tone of voice, I said, "You failed to pay me, so I simply took my tuning back."

    I know Ed is the voice of reason but I have to admit, I LOVE it Lucille. 

    ------------------------------
    Scott Kerns
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Lincoln, NE
    www.thattuningguy.com



  • 22.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 13:38

    It happens and unfortunate.  I was trying to think but nothing happened! ;>)

    Then, I remembered after a while that some music teacher on Whidbey Island, WA, who was thought to be the "bomb" (not really, just somebody who could actually play some Chopin worse than I) had me over to tune her very old old upright barely functional Cable Nelson; a fine instrument 90 years ago.  I tuned it and then was OK and we settled on a bargain price thinking and agreeing she would give me referrals to her students. She then shortly had it moved to another room in her old house with crooked floors and poor heating and then called me that it was out of tune. (duh).  I went over and touched up some unisons and a key or two that weren't working properly beforehand. (I did no action work on the old gal or the piano beforehand!!).  She refused to pay my time coming over there and it was cheap!!!  "It should be fine as you just tuned it and I'll pay you nothing!!", she said.   I told her to never call me again and stormed out a bit more colorfully than I should have.  I suppose my rant to students made my business drop and hense, made a move to a CAUT position where people understand a bit more about pianos where I can actually do the work that's needed on old pianos! .  I can't help the ignorant!

    New tunings clients from there on the island weren't so good except getting better clients with better pianos, but it wasn't enough to afford staying out there. I actually got better clients!!  On Whidbey, there were at least 4 RPT's and a couple of "tooners" so business was still too tough.

    Enjoying the CAUT world my friends!  Other issues come up now, but when there is action failures etc, I get the funds to fix and then I do.I've enjoyed meeting and tuning for some of the worlds best performers. Too long a list to go, but they're all great people.  I have another theory about great musicians, but ask me off line and I'll tell you. It's solid.

    Best

    Paul

    ------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Director of Piano Services
    School of Music
    813 Assembly St
    University of South Carolina
    Columbia, SC 29208
    pwilliams@mozart.sc.edu



  • 23.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 16:25

    Lucille,

     

    I have to agree with Ed Sutton. Even though there's a part of me that says, "Yeah, that lady got what she deserved!" the fact is that what you did was unethical and illegal. The legal way to repossess something that someone has failed to pay for is with a court order, which you did not have when you re-entered her home uninvited and under false pretenses. Also, can you say with certainty that you did not leave the piano in worse condition than it was in before you tuned it? If not, you may have done more than just "repossess" your tuning.

     

    Roger Domeny, RPT

    Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild

    Domeny's Piano Service

    3041 Prado Ln, Colton, CA 92324

    www.domenyspianoservice.com

    roger@domenyspianoservice.com

    (909) 824-2561

     






  • 24.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-25-2016 02:36

    To Roger:

    You seem to not know the difference between a Perpetrator and a Victim.

    This woman KNEW she was the Perpetrator, or she most certainly would have taken legal action.

    Just for the record, some cases are thrown out when there are mitigating circumstances that justify an action. And you don't know Law if you think I trespassed. The maid let me in and showed me to the piano.

    ------------------------------
    Lucille Rains
    Franklin Lakes NJ
    201-337-7228



  • 25.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-23-2016 23:01

    I have had one person with this funky little spinet, threaten to cancel the check, because he wanted it to sound like something it couldn't do.

    My business guidelines are deposit checks every night, so a stop check is harder to pull.

    ------------------------------
    Leif Mathisen



  • 26.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 16:04

    First, like the rest of you, I am blessed with clients who are wonderful people, a real joy to work for! The horror stories are truly the exception. Here's mine.

     

    I was called by an elderly woman to tune a relatively new Steigerman upright. She had recently relocated to the Inland Empire from the coast. As we were setting up the appointment, she couldn't stop gushing about her previous piano tuner. When this happens, it always makes me a bit edgy.

     

    When I arrived for the appointment, I found the piano to be 25 cents flat, in spite of the fact that it had been tuned by Mr. Perfect within the last year. Granted, it had moved to a dryer climate, but 25 cents seemed a bit excessive. So I explained the need for a pitch raise and a follow-up tuning. I also pointed out some regulation problems that the piano had, preparing her for the possibility of additional work. I seemed to make a good impression and the client was happy.

     

    When I returned for the follow-up tuning about a month later, she told me that the piano had reacted to the pitch raise just as I had predicted, which it had. It wasn't bad, but it had slipped enough that a follow-up tuning was in order. This time I was able to focus on putting a very refined tuning on it. I also reminded her of the regulation issues and gave her a ballpark cost for getting that taken care of.

     

    Within the next day or two, I received an email from her telling me how much she was enjoying playing her piano and how wonderful it sounded. She was ecstatic with joy!

     

    Imagine my surprise when I checked my online business bank account a few days later and found a returned item chargeback fee and a deduction for the amount of a tuning fee. When I clicked to see details, there was an image of the check that she had written. So I called my bank to find out why the check was returned unpaid. Imagine my surprise when they told me that she had put a stop payment order on the check!

     

    When I called her to ask her about it, she said that she had made a mistake and put a stop payment on the wrong check. She told me that a high pressure magazine salesman had come to her door and sold her subscriptions that she later regretted paying for. Her intention was to stop payment on that check, not mine. She was stumbling all over herself with apologies. Hmm, I thought. So I explained that I would need to collect for the tuning plus a $25 bounced check fee. This is the maximum that the state of CA allows, which covers what my bank charges me, plus a little extra for my time. I took her credit card information, processed the charges, and thought this would be the end of the story. Well, it wasn't.

     

    About three months later, I got a very angry email from her. She was not happy with the tuning, and never was. It wasn't right from the very beginning. And I needed to come right away and fix it for free. I emailed her back, explaining that if there was a problem with my work, she needed to contact me right away, not three months later, and that her previous communication had in fact indicated that she was very satisfied with my work. I explained that I was not responsible for what three months of use and environmental changes had done to her piano. So no, I would not be returning for free. I informed her of my current prices and told her that she was welcome to either make an early appointment or wait until our next scheduled appointment.

     

    When she replied, she doubled down on her demands for me to come "immediately" and at no charge to her. Then she accused me of "sabotaging" her piano by introducing problems that were not there before so that I could make more money. She was of course referring to the regulation issues that I had pointed out. This was the last straw for me.

     

    I could see that I was not going to get anywhere by trying to reason with her. (I suspected some form of dementia, which actually helped me treat her with patience and respect even while I was seething inside.) In my final reply, I expressed how sorry I was that I had not been able to make her happy, and that under the circumstances, it would be best for both of us to terminate our professional relationship so that she could move on and find someone else who would hopefully be able to satisfy her. Clearly I was not that person, and she should expect a refund in the mail in a few days. That same day I mailed her a check for the tuning fee (but not the bounced check fee), which she cashed.

     

    It's the only time in five years of business that I have given anyone a refund. But it was more than worth it to get what I considered a psychotic client off my back!

     

    Roger Domeny, RPT

    Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild

    Domeny's Piano Service

    3041 Prado Ln, Colton, CA 92324

    www.domenyspianoservice.com

    roger@domenyspianoservice.com

    (909) 824-2561

     






  • 27.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 19:10

    Roger,

    I am aware of someone who made what was surely a painfully large refund to an unhappy customer, and think it was probably good advertizing in the long run. The customer spoke well of fhat person to me, even as she hired me to follw up on his work.

    We could do well to consider that whatever we do is public behavior, and to respond to conflict in a way that "renders the best possible service under the circumstances, always keeping the best interests of my client in mind." (Quoting the PTG Code of Ethics.)

    There is much to be said for the skill of ending a conflicted relationship in a generous manner, as you did.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 28.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 17:02

    Relax everyone. 

    Lucielle did no harm to our chapter. 

    She may have done what some of us would not do, but she is her own person. 

    We all deal with circumstances in our own way.

    Example:

    customer: (husband of the woman I set the tuning with, after I did the tuning) "I'm not paying you X. I'm paying you Y and you will accept it" 

    Me: "if you are going to steal from me, then do it right. Steal the whole thing. don't be a half assed thief  Be a real thief" 

    and I walked out, deleting them from my database. 

    We all deal differently  

    ------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com



  • 29.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-25-2016 03:42
    Dave,

    I thank you for your fine defense, but this episode happened before I even knew there was a PTG. At the time, I had total support of a house and two children, and every penny counted, and I had never heard that "check is in the mail" scam before. I doubt that I would do that today.







  • 30.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 19:12
    A while back I was called to tune a Baldwin Hamilton. The guy was a Vietnam vet, and had two pianos. As I arrived and began opening the piano, he berated the last tuner that had tuned the piano. I sort of blew it off, and said I usually don't make judgments about someone's work, since I wasn't there to assess the piano at that time. I should have seen what was coming.
    I finished the tuning, collected my check, and left. A couple days later I got a call. He was very unhappy with my tuning, said it sounded terrible. He was bordering on being offensive, and challenged me to "stand behind my work". So I promised to come and retune the piano. As I suspected, it was almost perfect, but I proceeded to use my Accutuner to retune every string. I really tried my best, thinking maybe he had really good hearing and I'd better make sure I nailed it. As I packed up, I asked him to try it again. He sat down and then railed about how bad it still sounded, and that I should refund his money. I told him he owed ME money for coming back when there wasn't anything wrong with it. As he followed me out the front door, telling me what a poor tuner I was, I turned and leaned into his face. I told him, "Don't make me do something I might regret!" I was mad as hell, but in hindsight I should have been more constrained. After all, he was a trained and experienced soldier. Anyway, he didn't do anything and I got the he## outta there unscathed.
    Some people have a hearing defect that makes some pitches seem off, and since they don't know about it, they blame you for it. Not often, but it does happen.
    Paul McCloud
    San DIego




  • 31.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 19:48
    Your trained and experienced soldier could very well have been a supply
    clerk. Highly dangerous with a ballpoint pen and the restocking of XB3
    items.

    The hearing thing is definitely real, as is the psychology. One of the
    refunds I tendered was an old woman who had lost her husband the year
    before. She didn't play, but the old man had dearly loved the (tired old
    average) grand piano and played for her every evening. He always had it
    tuned once a year, so she was doing the same. She didn't like the
    treble, which was just fine. She couldn't hear it. Talking with her and
    experimenting a bit, I realized that I could never make that piano sound
    to her like she believed she remembered it when her husband played for
    her. The picture in her mind was unachievable in real life unless we
    could get the old man back to play it. She was quite nice about it, but
    there was no way to win against her memories, so I apologized for not
    being able to do what she wanted and bowed out as gracefully as I could.

    Ron N




  • 32.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 20:37

    Ron,

    Thank you for this beautiful story.

    Ed

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 33.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 20:45
    An expensive story.
    Ron N




  • 34.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2016 20:48
    Well, Ron, you're a better man than me! That guy was quite well schooled in firearms, and had a few that he showed me. I'm lucky he didn't carry one while he followed me out. It's likely his hearing was damaged during his time in the service.
    It was a first for me, and I would have dealt with it differently had I known about this. Not that he might have understood, but at least I would have.
    There is so much sentimentalism wrapped up in pianos. If we were as attached to our cars as people are to their pianos, I'd still be driving that old Falcon, using it as a mantle for my Baseball trophies. Maybe I'd have parked it in the living room and started it once in a while just to hear how it used to sound. And blame the mechanic because I couldn't hear the tappets anymore. It must have been his fault.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diegl




  • 35.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 21:34
    Yea, actual artillery wins. Every time!

    What does it cost to get a Falcon bronzed, anyway?
    Ron N




  • 36.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 21:48

    Paul,

    That sentimentalism is another name for love. My customers love music, their family, their pianos and their memories.

    They happily pay me for doing something that doesn't feed them, keep the rain off their heads of move sewage out of their homes.

    Sometimes my job is to help them navigate a difficult passage between the reality of their hearts and objective reality embodied in the piano.

    It makes me glad when I can help them find a workable solution.

    I am grateful for their sentiments.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926



  • 37.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-26-2016 05:02

    Paul McCloud, not only is the client's hearing a factor, but their mental state, also. My client was musical director of a well-known music group that won awards over the years. One day the group gave her a party and retired her. I didn't question it, but she was very disturbed over it. She bought a new grand, complained to the music store, so they replaced it with a Baldwin Grand, and she complained again. They then replaced it with a Yamaha Grand. When the dealer wouldn't replaced it again, I tried to help her out and spent 4 hours trying to correct what she was hearing. She still wasn't happy so I called Yamaha. They sent a top-notch guy who also spent 4 hrs trying everything he could think of. I went by after that, and saw that while she played an octave, she'd say, "See, the octave sounds like a Major Seventh. Hear it? It was a perfect octave.Then I realized it wasn't the piano, it was her mind, her perception. It was confirmed when she went to call her son and she couldn't remember his name. I gasped. It was never the piano or her physical hearing . Not one of us suspected the real cause of this lady's problem, not the dealer, not the Yamaha Technician, and not me. She was in the early stages of dementia and did not perceive things correctly. THAT's why the music group retired her. They were the first to recognize it.  Today, this very sweet lady doesn't even know who I am.

    ------------------------------
    Lucille Rains
    Franklin Lakes NJ
    201-337-7228



  • 38.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-26-2016 05:28

    Very sad story, Lucille. I had a customer in ill health whose perfect pitch changed by a note. What he thought it was was off by a semitone. Drove him nuts, and absolutely nothing to do about it.

    I have another customer who hears about three notes next to each other in octave 6 as a semitone flat. I've stretched the area till it screams, and now she just hears it flat, but not as grossly. Luckily it's only that one area. She's had this her whole life. A choir director noticed it when she was in high school. Otherwise she's very musical and accomplished.

    ------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 39.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-26-2016 07:17
    Lucille:
    This is a very interesting story. My mother was an audiologist, and I learned some things about hearing from her, but I don't remember any discussion of this phenomenon. Are you aware of any studies on this? Now that I recall working for this man, he really did seem to have more than a few screws loose.

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 40.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-24-2016 21:03

    Sure, this has happened to most of us at one time or the other.

    Back in "the day" I was a performing the part of Mr. Snow in the Musical Carousel at a big dinner theater. I had my tenor solso part and duets with  the lead soprano, lines and moves, ready to perform but on the last rehearsal before the evening performance, the oboe player in the orchestra said he couldn't tune with the piano because it was so far out. They tired to call the contracted tuner but he wasn't available. So I hauled in my tuning gear and tuned the piano, despite the noise of folks getting served and eating on the other side of the curtain.. The show went on after my tuning and it was a big hit. After the performance I gave my tuning bill to the management of the theater. The show ran for three more weeks and I never got a check for the tuning or my performances. I found out the the other cast members hadn't gotten paid either. The bus drivers had been paid to take bus loads of patrons to the theater and fed in the employee lounge but the cast was weeks overdue for a pay check. I was glad they took care of the bus drivers but unhappy for the cast.  

    I went to the owner of the theater and told him the problem. "Also, I'm going to un-tune the stage piano if we don't get paid!", I told him. In the next fifteen minutes I was directed to go to the upstairs office. There the treasurer gave me a check for my tuning, my performances and 38 checks to give to the cast, the director, the choreographer and crew. 

    The moral to the story is: Tune to make the world enjoy music but de-tune to make the cheap rich rip offs pay their bills. 

    BTW- I was never asked to audition, perform or tune in that venue again despite the my good reviews in the newspapers. 

    Bob - farmhouseview@gmail.com

    ------------------------------
    Robert Highfield
    Lancaster PA



  • 41.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Posted 01-25-2016 11:18

    Phil,

    I wish this reminded me more of the mayor's wife who accused me of "you took all the ring out of my piano" but it has little to do with that. This clown is just a crook. Thanks and sorry to hear of such trouble in your exemplary life of service to the industry.






  • 42.  RE: Very cheap..and unethical..piano tuning story

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-25-2016 12:04

    Everyone,

    Please keep in mind Anti-trust issues when making posts on my.ptg.org.

    Paul Brown

    ------------------------------
    Paul Brown, RPT
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Email: paulbrn@telus.net
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------