Pianotech

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.
 
The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought. 

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT. 

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

I agree with Mark. I don't allow any open windows or doors, or A/C if possible. Too many times I've had to start over when somebody throws open the windows to make it more comfortable in the room. I'd rather be stifling in there than start over. Not to speak of allowing the sun to hit the strings. I can't help what someone does when I leave, but as long as I'm tuning, no air movement at all.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Mark Dierauf
I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652



Original Message------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use. My Cents Differential tuning system developed back in the late 1970's keeps the tuning referenced to previously tuned strings. This allows for micro-pitch drift to be compensated for.

In cases like the huge pitch changes caused by local temperature changes above, I suggest modifying the heating system.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 08:45
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: ETD awareness

I agree with Mark. I don't allow any open windows or doors, or A/C if possible. Too many times I've had to start over when somebody throws open the windows to make it more comfortable in the room. I'd rather be stifling in there than start over. Not to speak of allowing the sun to hit the strings. I can't help what someone does when I leave, but as long as I'm tuning, no air movement at all.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Mark Dierauf
I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652



Original Message------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

Ed wrote: "This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use."

I wasn't aware that match every string was standard practice. I've never met someone who does that. Everyone I know tunes the unisons aurally....

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(805) 315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 11:02
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: ETD awareness

This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use. My Cents Differential tuning system developed back in the late 1970's keeps the tuning referenced to previously tuned strings. This allows for micro-pitch drift to be compensated for.

In cases like the huge pitch changes caused by local temperature changes above, I suggest modifying the heating system.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 08:45
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: ETD awareness

I agree with Mark. I don't allow any open windows or doors, or A/C if possible. Too many times I've had to start over when somebody throws open the windows to make it more comfortable in the room. I'd rather be stifling in there than start over. Not to speak of allowing the sun to hit the strings. I can't help what someone does when I leave, but as long as I'm tuning, no air movement at all.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Mark Dierauf
I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652



Original Message------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

Yes it's faster to tune the unisons aurally. You have to listen to the piano. There is no other way to tune it. My ears plugged up because of a cold and sinus issues. I thought I could use use the ETD to tune unisons but after I was done, from what I could hear, I thought it was a lousy tuning but I was really coming down with something. 
What I like about the ETD is it shows you the change in pitch as you hit the note hard or when you relax the hammer and pin,, if it floats sharp. It helps me get the feel for the pins on that piano. 
I find in the high treble, I tune the 2 outside strings to the ETD and then aural the middle one. I am not a one pass tuner. I get the piano to the correct tension across the scale from bottom to top, play it hard,, rock and roll and boogie. Then I strip the center section. Check my 4ths 5ths run the 3rds, 10ths. I work the treble one note at a time on an upright using both the ETD and what I hear. Clean unisons are essential.

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-770-4312
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 12:48
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: ETD awareness

Ed wrote: "This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use."

I wasn't aware that match every string was standard practice. I've never met someone who does that. Everyone I know tunes the unisons aurally....

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(805) 315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 11:02
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: ETD awareness

This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use. My Cents Differential tuning system developed back in the late 1970's keeps the tuning referenced to previously tuned strings. This allows for micro-pitch drift to be compensated for.

In cases like the huge pitch changes caused by local temperature changes above, I suggest modifying the heating system.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 08:45
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: ETD awareness

I agree with Mark. I don't allow any open windows or doors, or A/C if possible. Too many times I've had to start over when somebody throws open the windows to make it more comfortable in the room. I'd rather be stifling in there than start over. Not to speak of allowing the sun to hit the strings. I can't help what someone does when I leave, but as long as I'm tuning, no air movement at all.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Mark Dierauf
I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652



Original Message------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

Benjamin,
I was a little to succinct. But when you tune the first string of a note to the ETD and then tune the unison, you are in fact still tuning to the ETD values, But of course the ETD will catch unison drift from the ETD standard.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 12:48
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: ETD awareness

Ed wrote: "This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use."

I wasn't aware that match every string was standard practice. I've never met someone who does that. Everyone I know tunes the unisons aurally....

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(805) 315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 11:02
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: ETD awareness

This is why the now standard ETD tuning system of matching each string to the ETD instead of to the other tuned strings was one I did not use. My Cents Differential tuning system developed back in the late 1970's keeps the tuning referenced to previously tuned strings. This allows for micro-pitch drift to be compensated for.

In cases like the huge pitch changes caused by local temperature changes above, I suggest modifying the heating system.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431

Original Message:
Sent: 12-07-2019 08:45
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: ETD awareness

I agree with Mark. I don't allow any open windows or doors, or A/C if possible. Too many times I've had to start over when somebody throws open the windows to make it more comfortable in the room. I'd rather be stifling in there than start over. Not to speak of allowing the sun to hit the strings. I can't help what someone does when I leave, but as long as I'm tuning, no air movement at all.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Mark Dierauf
I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652



Original Message------

I first noticed this years ago at a recording studio that I see a score or more times a year. Using Tunelab I'd tune A4, A3 and A2, checking the F-A third, tenth and octave/tenth as I went. Sometimes, but not always, this pitch of A4 would have changed in the minute or so it took to tune those three strings! It baffled me for a long time, but when I finally figured it out, the engineer and I stood and watched the pitch of A4 cycle about 4 cents very quickly in sync with the forced hot air heating system. In the winter, the often heat cycles on and off several times during a tuning, so I now make a point of turning it off while I'm working. In this case the nearest heating vent is about 12' from the Steinway B, which has a PLS system with bottom cover installed. Otherwise a very stable piano. Incidentally, the same thing happens with AC in the summer, except of course the strings now go sharp with the cool air flow.. Once when tuning for "From the Top" I had to cover a large AC vent directly adjacent to the piano to make it possible to tune. If you can't turn off or block the effects of these systems you'll need to either rely on you aural chops or else be constantly re-calibrating your etd as you go to compensate.


------------------------------
Mark Dierauf
Concord NH
603-225-4652
------------------------------

Really interesting! I'm with Paul about air movement. When tuning in cold churches, people often ask if I want the heat on & I have to tell them no & explain why. Some of my regular customers have started leaving the heat on from the Sunday before so I'll be tuning in the same temperature as their Sunday service. The fluctuations still aren't good,  but they understand. 

I was tuning my own piano last weekend & didn't realize the heat got stuck on until I started sweating 2/3 through the tuning.  Since I was using an ETD only, my end result was...well... interesting.  lol

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

I tune two pianos for a local church. A Steinway D in the worship center and a Kawai GS-70 in the choir room. Up until the C-19 attack both pianos required tuning, at minimum, once a month. The Kawai especially. The A/C in that room was turned on/off only when the room was being used. And when it was being used it would routinely fill up with about 80 people. The temperature and humidity, therefore, fluctuated drastically and the piano would just go wacky very quickly. Adding a DC de-humidifier system in the Kawai helped a lot, but not enough. But ever since the church campus has been closed due to C-19, with no choir practice and all services being streamed online, both pianos have suddenly become incredibly stable. I've only been seeing them about every other month and they have both consistently been holding their previous tunings very well. The church absolutely understands that the stability problems are due to A/C and population and made the decision long ago that it was less expensive to bring me in frequently than to redesign the A/C system. I'm good with that. When I was there last week, however, I felt the need to remind them that once the C-19 danger subsides, and people are once again being allowed inside, the stability they are now getting used to will, once again, go wacky. This was more of a self protection measure so that they would understand that when it happens it's not my fault.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-08-2019 23:59
From: Margaret Jusiel
Subject: ETD awareness

Really interesting! I'm with Paul about air movement. When tuning in cold churches, people often ask if I want the heat on & I have to tell them no & explain why. Some of my regular customers have started leaving the heat on from the Sunday before so I'll be tuning in the same temperature as their Sunday service. The fluctuations still aren't good,  but they understand.

I was tuning my own piano last weekend & didn't realize the heat got stuck on until I started sweating 2/3 through the tuning.  Since I was using an ETD only, my end result was...well... interesting.  lol

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

The immediate change in temperature shows up immediately. Acclimation to a new environment includes the overall average temperature, and especially the humidity of a house or room. It takes time to absorb or release moisture out of, or into the piano.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

The piano (as a whole) must acclimate to the new environment after a move (from one environment to another. The heat or cold from from a/c or heater is primarily affecting the strings and will go out very quickly (and return just as quickly) with the cycles. 

Just measure a string with your ETD, then put your finger on it for 5 seconds and re-measure...notice how far it went. Even leaning your bare arm on the capo bar for any length of time while tuning can affect strings in that area. It's amazing how really little it takes to cause the string to change pitch with temperature.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 04:37
From: Willem Blees
Subject: ETD awareness

The immediate change in temperature shows up immediately. Acclimation to a new environment includes the overall average temperature, and especially the humidity of a house or room. It takes time to absorb or release moisture out of, or into the piano.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

It is my understanding that the recommended wait time after a piano move is as much about the case and frame adjusting to its new floor, since no floor is really level.

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

Lucinda,

What you point out may hold for uprights, even when moved a couple of inches, what with four points of contact with the floor. But grands, with very few exceptions, rest on three points of contact. And you know what they say about tripods... (I was in a power trio in middle school named "Three Can't Rock.")

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 07:26
From: Lucinda Strehlow
Subject: ETD awareness

It is my understanding that the recommended wait time after a piano move is as much about the case and frame adjusting to its new floor, since no floor is really level.

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

....and geodesic domes.

I stand corrected!

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 08:30
From: Alan Eder
Subject: ETD awareness

Lucinda,

What you point out may hold for uprights, even when moved a couple of inches, what with four points of contact with the floor. But grands, with very few exceptions, rest on three points of contact. And you know what they say about tripods... (I was in a power trio in middle school named "Three Can't Rock.")

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 07:26
From: Lucinda Strehlow
Subject: ETD awareness

It is my understanding that the recommended wait time after a piano move is as much about the case and frame adjusting to its new floor, since no floor is really level.

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

The recommended wait between moving and tuning is not for the temperature, which adjusts within hours at most, nor any structural settling, which I expect would happen instantly if at all. The reason we let pianos "acclimate" is so they can adjust to the new HUMIDITY. It takes time for the wood to slowly exchange water with the air and get to an equilibrium. And the amount of time depends on how big the change is. If you're just moving a piano from one room to another you don't need to wait at all because daily, monthly, and seasonal changes in humidity are going to have a bigger effect on the piano than any difference between the two rooms. But if you're moving a piano from Arizona to Florida be prepared for instability over a long period.

------------------------------
Anthony Willey, RPT
http://willeypianotuning.com
http://pianometer.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 10:14
From: Lucinda Strehlow
Subject: ETD awareness

....and geodesic domes.

I stand corrected!

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 08:30
From: Alan Eder
Subject: ETD awareness

Lucinda,

What you point out may hold for uprights, even when moved a couple of inches, what with four points of contact with the floor. But grands, with very few exceptions, rest on three points of contact. And you know what they say about tripods... (I was in a power trio in middle school named "Three Can't Rock.")

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2020 07:26
From: Lucinda Strehlow
Subject: ETD awareness

It is my understanding that the recommended wait time after a piano move is as much about the case and frame adjusting to its new floor, since no floor is really level.

------------------------------
Cindy Strehlow, RPT
Urbana, IL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 02:52
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: ETD awareness

I'm a tad confused. If hot and cold air can affect a tuning so quickly (disregarding sunlight in this question) then why recommend a piano sit in a new home 2-4 weeks in a home before tuning (for "acclimation")? How is the temperature change affecting the strings and sounboard so quickly? Is the heat heating the strings enough for them to stretch and go flat by 2-3cents?

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2019 07:16
From: John Formsma
Subject: ETD awareness

Let's not make this a war between aural tuners and ETD tuners. But ETD tuners must be aware of something, because there are times when tuning exactly to the ETD will give poor results. This very thing happened to me yesterday as I was using my ETD, the Reyburn CyberTuner (which is a great tool, BTW). The issue is that temperature changes cause temporary pitch changes. I got to see and hear this yesterday morning, and the way it happened was pretty interesting.

The piano was a Yamaha C6 in a large church auditorium that I tune regularly. They had left the heat on since the night before, so the room and piano were right at 70-71º Perfect tuning scenario, or so I thought.

RCT to do the first quick pass, and everything was pretty close already except for the low tenor up to around B4. The second pass I used RCT to set the F3-F4 octave, and checked it aurally to make sure it was what I wanted. Then I tuned the rest aurally, but had RCT following along, tuning unisons as I went.

During the tuning, I could feel it getting a tad warmer from the HVAC. I was in the F5-G6 section, and noticed that the lower section I had tuned before seemed to be dropping in pitch. What RCT said was correct was too sharp, leaving the double octaves beating noticeably. So I checked the tenor area with RCT, and sure enough, the pitch had dropped there by 2-3 cents. So I went with my ear instead of RCT, but still let RCT follow along with me just to see the difference with it and with what I was hearing. From F5-G6 or so was tuned significantly lower than what RCT wanted. I would guess 1-3 cents but I didn't take a measurement. The topmost treble section was mostly in line with RCT.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

During the final unison check, I started at C8 and went down. By this time, I could tell the HVAC had stopped running and the temperature had dropped maybe 2-3º. As I went down from C8 with the unison check, every single note was dead on with RCT. Every single note. This includes the section from F5-G6, which had been tuned aurally, and tuned lower than what RCT wanted. This also included F3-B4 which had showed the pitch dropping during the tuning. I know it had been lower because I saw it with RCT.

Pretty cool, huh?

My conclusion is that had I just "stopped the lights", I would have ended up with a noticeably sharp treble section. But with recognizing temporary pitch changes, and tuning aurally, it self-corrected. Temporary pitch change is something that we tuners know, but sometimes we forget to pay close attention with our ears and pay more attention with our eyes.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------