If a client says the piano is playing heavily, there are numerous places to look. Bedding isn't generally one of them. Lack of aftertouch, badly worn hammer knuckles, keys or action parts in need of lubrication or repinning, damper timing, etc. After asking the client about specific keys or the specific problem, I play the piano so that I understand what the client is referring to.
It's good practice when trying to figure out what's wrong with regulation to work on just one or two notes and figure it out from there.
I took the 37 steps class. A wonderful class. I never follow the 37 steps in regulation, but I use a particular "step" to analyze a particular problem. I never bother with bedding unless there's an obvious problem; with the pianos I see there are generally many other obvious problems.
If it were me with this piano, I'd first quickly get bedding to where it should be and then ensure that aftertouch is present, and in this case I'd do one key and lessen the hammer blow distance and see how much it needs to go to get aftertouch right. Then I'd look at letoff and drop and make sure these were happening and close to where they should be. If the key plays freely, I know the direction I need to go, and this isn't necessarily by changing blow distance but, as has been said, possibly by increasing key dip instead, or a little of both. If the key still doesn't play as it should, then I'd look more carefully at other regulation issues. But the point is to look around and examine what's happening with one key to solve the problem the client is complaining of.
My two cents.
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Don Dalton
Chester VT
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-07-2021 20:50
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
A nickel, with that 2 mm thickness, is also a handy way to judge black key dip above the white keys, and...
A nickel also weighs exactly 5 grams. Which can be handy during certain transactions. Sometimes.
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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
Original Message:
Sent: 05-07-2021 18:03
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
A simple way to get the glide studs on a Yamaha grand in the ballpark of where they should be is to use a nickel like a touch block. A nickel is very close to 2mm thick and also functions as a handy government issued decision maker.
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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
Original Message:
Sent: 05-07-2021 15:33
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
I joined the Fresno chapter when the chapter I was in closed.
LaRoy and his daughters are in that chapter.
In the discussion about the 37 steps, LaRoy was concerned that they would get used as a step by step guide. They were intended to be an outline to be used by a teacher. Each step has much more info than just the heading.
Also he said there were at least 3 more steps.
Original Message:
Sent: 5/7/2021 12:16:00 PM
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: RE: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Speaking of the Little Red Schoolhouse, since I have the privilege of managing the Journal Indexing project, I have pdfs of every Journal since 1979, and I was able to extract all 37 Grand Regulation steps from the Journal ads. Here they are, in searchable pdf format. Enjoy. (Nothing about 2mm though)
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Jason Kanter
Lynnwood WA
425-830-1561
Original Message:
Sent: 05-07-2021 11:19
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Back to the playing heavy. I think that would be jack placement or damper timing.
Let us know
Original Message:
Sent: 5/6/2021 10:14:00 PM
From: Carl Lieberman
Subject: RE: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
I was in a Yamaha seminar with Laroy and Yoshi Suziki. I was also in the PPSS with Laroy and Ace Ugai. Their take was that the glide bolts should be adjusted to produce the factory setting of 10mm of key dip. The keybed moves and changes the key height and dip. The bedding screws are used to compensate for the movement of the keybed. 2mm of movement of the bedding screws creates 4mm of extra dip. That is a lot of extra aftertouch. The point is that the bedding screws can be used to micro adjust the key height, dip and aftertouch.
Laroy said that increasing the aftertouch by using the bedding screws was more efficient than raising the hammer line which reduces power.
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Carl Lieberman
RPT
Venice CA
310-392-2771
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 21:01
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Does the 2mm extension of the glide bolts apply to all models of Yamaha Grands. I attended the LRSH and have to look through the manuals and notes. I dont recall doing this during the class just making sure the keyframe was bedded so there was no knocking. I would like to see something in print that says this is a spec and also a picture of the gauge. I have used automobile feeler gauges in the past to get accurate readings on heights or projection of parts.
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 20:32
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Thank you to everyone that replied. The bedding screws look like the major culprit. Interestingly, the copy of the Little Red Schoolhouse that I have tells you to raise all the bedding screws in step 2 to adjust the front rail and then to bed them in step 3. No mention of 2mm anywhere.
Can someone post a picture of the gauge? I have an idea how to make one, but LeRoy's is going to probably be better then I can come up with on the first try.
Thank you for the other suggestions. I will let you know how it went after Saturday.
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Rex Roseman
Akron OH
330-289-2948
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 12:03
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Alan --
I seem to remember LaRoy Edwards touching on this during LRS, but both LaRoy and David Durbin were very specific on this during the Piano Service Seminar, the second of the three piano prep seminars that Yamaha does occasionally. During the Service seminar they even gave us all little gauges so we could get this right until we learned to simply do it by feel. (Good ol' LaRoy with his wonderful tools.) If I remember this correctly, (those classes were a while ago), the actions are bench regulated with the glide bolts extended. Once in the piano, with the piano now finely regulated and everything even, I think the idea was that should an overall change in performance, ie aftertouch, be required by a customer or performer it could simply be dialed in quickly using the glide bolts. In other words, you need that 2 mm extension in order for the action to perform as designed and set up in the factory. During those seminars, Yamaha stressed that while you can bring them back in flush, and reregulate the whole piano it really won't perform as well as if you left them extended in the first place.
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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 11:26
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Geoff,
Is there a reason that on Yamaha grand pianos the balance rail glide bolts need to protrude 2 mm? If one has the time to regain key dip, etc. after adjusting the bolts to within the range of 1 to 2 mm, is there a reason not to do that?
Alan
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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 11:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
Bedding a Yamaha key frame is different than most pianos. The glide bolts should extend beyond the bottom of the keyframe by about 2 mm. This is a deliberate setting by Yamaha. If you brought them in flush then, yeah, keydip, letoff, aftertouch etc., are all going to be off and the customer is going to have problems.
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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
Original Message:
Sent: 05-06-2021 03:47
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: Yamaha regulation/voicing problems
I got a call from a new customer that she had a Yamaha G1 grand that she wanted serviced. Besides tuning, her daughter thought the piano played too heavy although she didn't see a problem. I tuned the piano, bedded the key frame, lubricated the keys and wire brushed the hammers. Now she is complaining that there are keys that are "broken" (not returning full as per a picture she sent) bobbling and the piano has lost its resonance. The piano had no aftertouch when I left it and I explained that it needed more work before I left it the first time.
The two issues that I see could be a problem are the key bedding is off, especially the hidden glides or the action didn't get set all the way down on the frame when it was reattached after working on the keys. I don't do a lot of work on Yamaha pianos, so if there is someone with more experience on this brand that can offer suggestions on what to look for, it would be appreciated.
I am trying to get an appointment to see the piano Saturday and have an email to the locale Yamaha dealer for the name of the tech they use as backup if needed, but am open to suggestions of what to check from the wider community.
Thank you.
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Rex Roseman
Akron OH
330-289-2948
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