Pianotech

  • 1.  Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Hello, I saw a 1993 Weber (Young Chang) piano today, silver/gray action brackets. As I thought would be the case, a number of the hammers needed let-off adjustments. 

    Questions: since there seems to be ample room between the drop screws and the pinblock/stretcher, is it imperative that the brackets are replaced and is there ever a time that they seem to stabilize and stop expanding? 

    Thanks!



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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  • 2.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago
    Tim

    Some brackets don’t expand enough to keep the action from being removed. The age of this piano along with the silver/gray brackets indicates those are expanding brackets. I would highly recommend replacing them now before it does become a problem.

    Wim.
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 3.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Thanks, Wim. And I just reread your article today and sent an estimate to replace brackets and regulate. We'll see if they "bite. "I'm just not sure what to tell them about how crucial this is to do it within a certain timeframe. No substantial issues besides regulation problems at this point.



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Tim, when this phenomenon first began to occur, we (I), not knowing that the brackets were actually getting bigger, regulated the action to make it work, sometimes multiple times. When the problem became clear and the action brackets were replaced, the thing that often took the most time was going back and turning all the regulating screws and wooden capstans back to where they belonged.

    So if you're adjusting the regulation, which has likely been done before to keep it working, you are making more work for yourself down the line. A 3 hour job can easily turn into a 6 or 7 hour job. 

    Even if you successfully regulate it, what you are compensating for is the increased spread, restoring the correct geometry is really what the job is about, it still might not play well if you just regulate it. That is something you should communicate to the owners.

    I've found a lot of these YC grands to be pretty nice pianos once properly regulated and voiced. It's well worth the customer's expense to fix it now rather than have a higher labor bill down the road and it will save you a fair amount of aggravation.



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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Back in the day when this first started happening, the parts manager at Young Chang advised that even if you suspect the brackets are expanding, go ahead and replace them anyway.  There are pianos that are still out there with expanding brackets that haven't been discovered yet.  So they still sort of work, but are going to end up unplayable some day.  Some brackets were trashed immediately, and often you couldn't get the action out unless you broke them.  Better to inform the customer about the future of their piano, and leave it up to them.  At least they are aware of it.  



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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  • 6.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    It will only get worse if untreated...like cancer.  That's a guarantee. I used the 3D printed brackets. Take note that there are two different sizes. 

    Edit: Repinning of flanges MAY also rear their ugly heads. Nota Bene

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    I'm seeing people say 5-7 hours of work or so. This includes regulation? Are we talking about a "rough" regulation or is this how fast you all do grand regulations? Perhaps I'm slow, but I normally take 2 days for a full grand action regulation. I did one this week and repinned nearly all the repetition flange centers, a number of hammer flange centers, hammer reshaping, string mating, voicing, etc. I can't imagine doing a full regulation in under 8 hours.



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago
    Tim

    4-5 hours would be for a rough on the bench regulation provided a previous tech didn’t change all the specs. If they did, then all bets are off since you might need to start from scratch. That’s only the bench regulation. You will need to spend more time once the action is in the piano.

    This does NOT include matings hammers to strings or voicing, nor tuning.

    Getting back to regulation. While action spread is important, (11.5cm), what I’ve found to work the best is to align the front of the jack with the front of the knuckle center. Do this by moving the wippen rail back and forth. First do the bass and and then the treble. Then make sure you tighten all the screws.

    If this is your first dance with action brackets, your time will be longer. You can always ask us more questions.

    Wim.
    Sent from my iPhone


    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Wim,

    "Front" or "back" can be interpreted differently by different people under different circumstances. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were saying align the distal side of the jack with tbe distal side of the knuckle core.  Yes? 

    The jack should ideally create a 90° angle with the shank when the hammer blow is according to spec (1.75" or so?)

    Tim,

    You need to let the client know that the amount of work necessary may be more or less than you are estimating, depending on what has been done (or not done) previously.  If ignored, the piano will become unplayable. The only thing that is different about this job is the bracket replacement. Everything else is standard regulating (and/or repinning). I would suggest working up a "worst case" scenario (low probability, but possible) and present it to them.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Expanding action brackets

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 18 days ago

    Hi Tim,

    I found these resources helpful:

    Supply 88 Instructions 

    Young Chang Instructions 

    Also "Replacing Young Chang Growing Action Brackets" by Bruce Dornfeld, RPT (2009 August Journal)

    I also made a short video of this repair that may help your client visualize.



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    Elisha Katamura RPT
    Katamura Piano Service
    Fresno, CA
    (559)765-7373
    https://www.katamurapianoservice.com/
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