Pianotech

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

Geoff,

Sounds like this could be the work of one of my favorite country music duos, Cheatin' Jack and Too Close Backcheck. Like Alexander, Paul and Wim have said, more likely the latter. 

Before reshaping tails or even bending back check wires, you might want to take a moment to loosen all of the action bracket screws, seat the top stack towards you and retighten in this sequence recommended by Yamaha: screws of the end brackets first, then the rear screws of the other brackets, and finally the front screws of the other brackets (which may be angled backwards). Believe it or not, if the front action brackets screws are angled and they are tightened first, that can push the stack back enough in some cases to cause the kind of tail-to-backcheck interference it sounds like you are describing.

"This has never happened to me, but I knew a guy..." who once tried more time-consuming and invasive measures only to later realize that it was simply due to the top stack having been installed just a bit too far back. ;-] Definitely worth taking a minute to investigate.

Best,

Alan

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

AHA! Thanks, all, for your responses. While I always follow the Yamaha recommended method of screwing down the action, I was unaware that this procedure could affect hammer/backcheck alignment. Yes, it only takes a little shank flex at the wrong moment to cause the tail to touch the backcheck a little tiny bit when playing hard. And now, with this new understanding, I remember that this customer has taken the stack off himself several times in order to install a DIY midi device under the keys. Next time I'm there I will pull the action and reinstall the stack, correctly, to see if that makes a difference. Thanks all.

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

AHA! Thanks, all, for your responses. While I always follow the Yamaha recommended method of screwing down the action, I was unaware that this procedure could affect hammer/backcheck alignment. Yes, it only takes a little shank flex at the wrong moment to cause the tail to touch the backcheck a little tiny bit when playing hard. And now, with this new understanding, I remember that this customer has taken the stack off himself several times in order to install a DIY midi device under the keys. Next time I'm there I will pull the action and reinstall the stack, correctly, to see if that makes a difference. Thanks all.

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2023 22:25
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Lack of response on hard blows

2012 Schimmel C-208

Gorgeous piano. No real problems. Lives in a perfect environment as far as stability is concerned. And customer has no issues. He loves the piano as is. But when I'm there to tune it I notice that when I do a sharp test blow the key feels like it's got a "governor" on it. The harder I play the note, the less response I get from it. On hard blows it feels like it is suddenly being held back, like, for lack of a better term, like a marshmallow has suddenly gotten in the way. As I think about this I'm thinking that it's possibly poor jack/knuckle alignment. Like the jack is too far back. But I have not had the opportunity to pull the action and experiment with this adjustment. Before I recommend some regulation to the customer I thought I might check in here to see what others think about what I should be looking for. 

FWIW, the only other time I have experienced this same issue was with a Samick Knabe piano. No matter what I did I could not make it any better. In that situation I was finally convinced it was an uncorrectable factory action geometry problem and finally gave up. 

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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