Pianotech

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

4 coils on plain wire probably max,  3 coils for low bass.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

4 coils is too many. Not just for looks, but it prevents the pin from going down far enough in the block to keep it from flag poling during tuning. 

On single bass strings I've done only two coils, for the same reason.

4 coils on plain wire probably max,  3 coils for low bass.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

4 coils is too many. Not just for looks, but it prevents the pin from going down far enough in the block to keep it from flag poling during tuning. 

On single bass strings I've done only two coils, for the same reason.

4 coils on plain wire probably max,  3 coils for low bass.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Wim -

Take a nice walk on the beach tomorrow and think this one over.  If your 'flag-polling' is being caused by insufficient pin-in-block, it's not really "flag-polling".   If the coil was inverted, and the active wire length extended from the top of the winding (closest to your hammer placement), then THAT would definitely encourage such bending motion.  

4 coils is too many. Not just for looks, but it prevents the pin from going down far enough in the block to keep it from flag poling during tuning. 

On single bass strings I've done only two coils, for the same reason.

4 coils on plain wire probably max,  3 coils for low bass.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Another point is that coils should be tight such that no holes are showing and all beckets tightly crimped.  I was taught this while a Belleyman at Sohmer.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Why three coils? Simple...because it's always been done that way!

When I was at Tuners Supply, forty-five years ago, that was the standard answer to most questions. 

------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill, MA
gj@gjpianotuner.com
www.gjpianotuner.com
(978) 372-2250

Original Message:
Sent: 03-05-2026 09:59
From: Parker Leigh
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Another point is that coils should be tight such that no holes are showing and all beckets tightly crimped.  I was taught this while a Belleyman at Sohmer.

------------------------------
Parker Leigh RPT
Winchester VA
(540) 722-3865

Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2026 18:36
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Capstan equation  ->  T₂ = T₁ · e^(μθ) 

------------------------------
Dylan Johnson
Boulder CO
(415) 384-1811
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-05-2026 10:56
From: Gerry Johnston
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Why three coils? Simple...because it's always been done that way!

When I was at Tuners Supply, forty-five years ago, that was the standard answer to most questions. 

------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill, MA
gj@gjpianotuner.com
www.gjpianotuner.com
(978) 372-2250

Original Message:
Sent: 03-05-2026 09:59
From: Parker Leigh
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Another point is that coils should be tight such that no holes are showing and all beckets tightly crimped.  I was taught this while a Belleyman at Sohmer.

------------------------------
Parker Leigh RPT
Winchester VA
(540) 722-3865

Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2026 18:36
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Capstan equation  ->  T₂ = T₁ · e^(μθ) 

------------------------------
Dylan Johnson
Boulder CO
(415) 384-1811

Original Message:
Sent: 03-05-2026 10:56
From: Gerry Johnston
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Why three coils? Simple...because it's always been done that way!

When I was at Tuners Supply, forty-five years ago, that was the standard answer to most questions. 

------------------------------
Gerry Johnston
Haverhill, MA
gj@gjpianotuner.com
www.gjpianotuner.com
(978) 372-2250

Original Message:
Sent: 03-05-2026 09:59
From: Parker Leigh
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Another point is that coils should be tight such that no holes are showing and all beckets tightly crimped.  I was taught this while a Belleyman at Sohmer.

------------------------------
Parker Leigh RPT
Winchester VA
(540) 722-3865

Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2026 18:36
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Number of coils in restringing

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Out of sheer curiosity I poked my head inside one of three SS uprights here (currently with its original stringing 1901) and found 4 coils each in the top two treble sections, and 3 coils each in the tenor and bass. All nice and neatly done, of course. So...just wondering. Maybe it was just "a thing" with certain stringers. IDK

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Out of sheer curiosity I poked my head inside one of three SS uprights here (currently with its original stringing 1901) and found 4 coils each in the top two treble sections, and 3 coils each in the tenor and bass. All nice and neatly done, of course. So...just wondering. Maybe it was just "a thing" with certain stringers. IDK

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I thought of this thread after tuning an Estonia semi-concert grand yesterday the owner bought new a couple years ago. Beautiful piano!

Out of sheer curiosity I poked my head inside one of three SS uprights here (currently with its original stringing 1901) and found 4 coils each in the top two treble sections, and 3 coils each in the tenor and bass. All nice and neatly done, of course. So...just wondering. Maybe it was just "a thing" with certain stringers. IDK

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Tim,

Very interesting.  I'm counting about 4 1/2 coils on those pins, even in the bass! Wow!  Thx for posting that  

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I thought of this thread after tuning an Estonia semi-concert grand yesterday the owner bought new a couple years ago. Beautiful piano!

Out of sheer curiosity I poked my head inside one of three SS uprights here (currently with its original stringing 1901) and found 4 coils each in the top two treble sections, and 3 coils each in the tenor and bass. All nice and neatly done, of course. So...just wondering. Maybe it was just "a thing" with certain stringers. IDK

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Fazioli F278, bass, tenor and treble. 

Tim,

Very interesting.  I'm counting about 4 1/2 coils on those pins, even in the bass! Wow!  Thx for posting that  

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I thought of this thread after tuning an Estonia semi-concert grand yesterday the owner bought new a couple years ago. Beautiful piano!

Out of sheer curiosity I poked my head inside one of three SS uprights here (currently with its original stringing 1901) and found 4 coils each in the top two treble sections, and 3 coils each in the tenor and bass. All nice and neatly done, of course. So...just wondering. Maybe it was just "a thing" with certain stringers. IDK

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

One of the most important reasons for three coils is that other technicians will be appraising your work.  If they are expecting three tight coils with beckets/elbows at 90° then you need to have three tight coils and 90°.  If they see sloppy work then they will start looking for other irregularities.

This is one of the first thing I look for as it is easy to appraise and a good red flag for amateurish work.

When I install a new string I try to match the original windings as closely as I can.  Other technicians will notice.

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The tradition is 3 coils and 4 in the top capo section. The reasoning is uniform distance of the lowest coil from the block or plate. The reasons for that are to help reduce flagpolling and the side benefit of keeping the pin from being driven deeper in the top section to accommodate that because the wire is thinner. Less flagpolling without increasing the torque in the top section makes fine tuning the high treble easier. 

Note that the increasing string length in the lower part of the piano results in more elongation so if you want to maintain a three coil pattern you'll have to cut the wire progressively shorter. 

Functional differences are probably marginal enough it doesn't really matter other than the visual element. Uniform coils with the beckets pointing in the same direction is a nice look. 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

David, this is very helpful information, as usual. As to the visual element of aligned beckets, it does function to help the tuner keep a relatively consistent tuning hammer position on the pins, so I think this aspect goes slightly beyond visual conformity. 

The tradition is 3 coils and 4 in the top capo section. The reasoning is uniform distance of the lowest coil from the block or plate. The reasons for that are to help reduce flagpolling and the side benefit of keeping the pin from being driven deeper in the top section to accommodate that because the wire is thinner. Less flagpolling without increasing the torque in the top section makes fine tuning the high treble easier. 

Note that the increasing string length in the lower part of the piano results in more elongation so if you want to maintain a three coil pattern you'll have to cut the wire progressively shorter. 

Functional differences are probably marginal enough it doesn't really matter other than the visual element. Uniform coils with the beckets pointing in the same direction is a nice look. 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

While technically that is correct, the differences aren't that great.  

What you're concerned with is the maximum deviation of the tuning lever handle for tuning pins that aren't similarly aligned.

To determine that you have to look at how a square tuning pin works with a star shaped tuning lever tip.  

A tuning pin has four-fold rotational symmetry, it repeats every 90 degrees.  The star tip has 8-fold symmetry (two squares) it repeats every 45 degrees. 

So, the maximum deviation within the tuning tip is 1/2 of that or 22.5 degrees (once you pass the halfway mark you are into another position within the star).

To convert that to clock face rotation you first have to covert each clock face number to degrees.  Since there are 12 hours the number of degrees between hours is 30 degrees.  22.5/30 = .75 or 45 minutes of clock time.  

So, if you tune ideally at the 1:00 position, the *maximum* deviation would be 45 minutes of clock time or from 12:15 to 1:45.  Most deviations would fall under that.  Even at the maximum, while not insignificant, it's not enough to cause ergonomic problems or affect speed, or control.

David, this is very helpful information, as usual. As to the visual element of aligned beckets, it does function to help the tuner keep a relatively consistent tuning hammer position on the pins, so I think this aspect goes slightly beyond visual conformity. 

The tradition is 3 coils and 4 in the top capo section. The reasoning is uniform distance of the lowest coil from the block or plate. The reasons for that are to help reduce flagpolling and the side benefit of keeping the pin from being driven deeper in the top section to accommodate that because the wire is thinner. Less flagpolling without increasing the torque in the top section makes fine tuning the high treble easier. 

Note that the increasing string length in the lower part of the piano results in more elongation so if you want to maintain a three coil pattern you'll have to cut the wire progressively shorter. 

Functional differences are probably marginal enough it doesn't really matter other than the visual element. Uniform coils with the beckets pointing in the same direction is a nice look. 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Until you start competing with the lid prop... 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

While technically that is correct, the differences aren't that great.  

What you're concerned with is the maximum deviation of the tuning lever handle for tuning pins that aren't similarly aligned.

To determine that you have to look at how a square tuning pin works with a star shaped tuning lever tip.  

A tuning pin has four-fold rotational symmetry, it repeats every 90 degrees.  The star tip has 8-fold symmetry (two squares) it repeats every 45 degrees. 

So, the maximum deviation within the tuning tip is 1/2 of that or 22.5 degrees (once you pass the halfway mark you are into another position within the star).

To convert that to clock face rotation you first have to covert each clock face number to degrees.  Since there are 12 hours the number of degrees between hours is 30 degrees.  22.5/30 = .75 or 45 minutes of clock time.  

So, if you tune ideally at the 1:00 position, the *maximum* deviation would be 45 minutes of clock time or from 12:15 to 1:45.  Most deviations would fall under that.  Even at the maximum, while not insignificant, it's not enough to cause ergonomic problems or affect speed, or control.

David, this is very helpful information, as usual. As to the visual element of aligned beckets, it does function to help the tuner keep a relatively consistent tuning hammer position on the pins, so I think this aspect goes slightly beyond visual conformity. 

The tradition is 3 coils and 4 in the top capo section. The reasoning is uniform distance of the lowest coil from the block or plate. The reasons for that are to help reduce flagpolling and the side benefit of keeping the pin from being driven deeper in the top section to accommodate that because the wire is thinner. Less flagpolling without increasing the torque in the top section makes fine tuning the high treble easier. 

Note that the increasing string length in the lower part of the piano results in more elongation so if you want to maintain a three coil pattern you'll have to cut the wire progressively shorter. 

Functional differences are probably marginal enough it doesn't really matter other than the visual element. Uniform coils with the beckets pointing in the same direction is a nice look. 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Becket alignment won't help you there

Until you start competing with the lid prop... 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

While technically that is correct, the differences aren't that great.  

What you're concerned with is the maximum deviation of the tuning lever handle for tuning pins that aren't similarly aligned.

To determine that you have to look at how a square tuning pin works with a star shaped tuning lever tip.  

A tuning pin has four-fold rotational symmetry, it repeats every 90 degrees.  The star tip has 8-fold symmetry (two squares) it repeats every 45 degrees. 

So, the maximum deviation within the tuning tip is 1/2 of that or 22.5 degrees (once you pass the halfway mark you are into another position within the star).

To convert that to clock face rotation you first have to covert each clock face number to degrees.  Since there are 12 hours the number of degrees between hours is 30 degrees.  22.5/30 = .75 or 45 minutes of clock time.  

So, if you tune ideally at the 1:00 position, the *maximum* deviation would be 45 minutes of clock time or from 12:15 to 1:45.  Most deviations would fall under that.  Even at the maximum, while not insignificant, it's not enough to cause ergonomic problems or affect speed, or control.

David, this is very helpful information, as usual. As to the visual element of aligned beckets, it does function to help the tuner keep a relatively consistent tuning hammer position on the pins, so I think this aspect goes slightly beyond visual conformity. 

The tradition is 3 coils and 4 in the top capo section. The reasoning is uniform distance of the lowest coil from the block or plate. The reasons for that are to help reduce flagpolling and the side benefit of keeping the pin from being driven deeper in the top section to accommodate that because the wire is thinner. Less flagpolling without increasing the torque in the top section makes fine tuning the high treble easier. 

Note that the increasing string length in the lower part of the piano results in more elongation so if you want to maintain a three coil pattern you'll have to cut the wire progressively shorter. 

Functional differences are probably marginal enough it doesn't really matter other than the visual element. Uniform coils with the beckets pointing in the same direction is a nice look. 

Curious...

Does anyone routinely (or for some specific reason) put more than three coils on pins in their stringing?  I've seen it occasionally. I think I recall seeing as many as 5 coils on some of Peter Mohr's work when he was still doing rebuilds in Manchester, NH.  And, I've seen 4 coils on some older Steinway uprights. 

I don't know if there is any functional difference in doing so...curious

Peter Grey Piano Doctor