Pianotech

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I've had improved results by tipping the grands on their side and applying the CA underneath the block. It wicks in, so the piano doesn't need to be completely perpendicular to the ground. I use a "one-man" tilter, so I can do it by myself. I've never tried the hole drilling technique. It sounds logical, but intimidating to drill dozens of tiny holes like that!

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I've had improved results by tipping the grands on their side and applying the CA underneath the block. It wicks in, so the piano doesn't need to be completely perpendicular to the ground. I use a "one-man" tilter, so I can do it by myself. I've never tried the hole drilling technique. It sounds logical, but intimidating to drill dozens of tiny holes like that!

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I am currently replacing the pinblock in a C7 from the late 1970's. It was treated with CA in several places. I believe the hard bushings slowed the penetration into the block itself but did wick through enough to adhere the pinblock to the underside of the plate. I ended up punching the plate bushings from the top with tension lifting the plate up to break the glue joint.

I also had a pretty good CA glue adhesion on a Steinway O with no plate bushings. So, yes it can happen.

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Steve,

I am of the opinion that "more is not necessarily better", therefore I treat minimally, but in two or three passes. I really don't care about getting "down into the pinblock" if bushings are present. I treat only the bushings (in essence). The first squirt lasts maybe 2 seconds...let cure. Second squirt at about 1 second...let cure and try. If tight enough to tune...tune. If I think I want a little more insurance, one more squirt and let cure.

This method has proven effective with the exception of pins that are literally spinning in the hole. It prevents the soaking side effects as mentioned, and treats the problem which is at the top. Each successive application adheres to the previous application, increasing the bond thickness. 

When pin replacement becomes necessary you drill out and replace the bushing with new. 

Goal: Just enough help to make it tunable. No need to "fix" the pinblock.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I am currently replacing the pinblock in a C7 from the late 1970's. It was treated with CA in several places. I believe the hard bushings slowed the penetration into the block itself but did wick through enough to adhere the pinblock to the underside of the plate. I ended up punching the plate bushings from the top with tension lifting the plate up to break the glue joint.

I also had a pretty good CA glue adhesion on a Steinway O with no plate bushings. So, yes it can happen.

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I am currently replacing the pinblock in a C7 from the late 1970's. It was treated with CA in several places. I believe the hard bushings slowed the penetration into the block itself but did wick through enough to adhere the pinblock to the underside of the plate. I ended up punching the plate bushings from the top with tension lifting the plate up to break the glue joint.

I also had a pretty good CA glue adhesion on a Steinway O with no plate bushings. So, yes it can happen.

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Someone might recall who it was that had posted their method for drilling small holes in the walls of the tuning pin bushings to guide glue to block.  

No, I don't think it will hamper replacing the pins with larger size pins later and, in this case, it sounds like you don't have much choice.  Note that Yamaha and Kawai use hard bushings and so if the fit around the pin is quite snug I'm not sure whether that might not inhibit penetration even using water thin CA glue but it's worth a try. You don't have much choice. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2026 18:58
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Opinions sought on Ca glue in pin blocks and long term effects

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I too tune Yamaha C grands on cruise ships but have never experienced ones with loose pins. I have seen poor string replacements and many, many spills. Tuning stability is excellent because pianos are tuned frequently. To preserve future options, I would not treat tunings pins with CA glue. Larger size pins would extend usable life of instrument with more certainty. More extensive piano work can be scheduled the next time the piano is in drydock (recommend to ship personnel). Once a foreign material is introduced into a pinblock, I personally will not warranty any restringing work without pinblock replacement (I also rebuild pianos). I am not sure how cruise lines deal with aging pianos. They just might replace with new instead of rebuilding; I have never come across a new or rebuilt instrument on an older ship. 

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

Terrence,

Generally there are not loose tuning pins on the cruise ship Yamahas.  The pianos are now old enough that they are being rebuilt.  The tuning pins never feel the same once rebuilt.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

The solution to oversize tuning pins is to use Lo-Torq pins. The pinblock size is 3.5/0 but the exposed size is 2/0. The geometry here was written about in the journal many years ago. Sure...they're more expensive...but they're far better. Simply charge appropriately. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Terrence,

Generally there are not loose tuning pins on the cruise ship Yamahas.  The pianos are now old enough that they are being rebuilt.  The tuning pins never feel the same once rebuilt.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

Working my way backwards in responding to most recent:
Peter Gray - Indeed, the principles of Larudee Lo-torq pins have been widely acknowledged, though I'm not sure (as in, I don't know) how they would work in the case of individual repairs, however, my 'beef' with your response is that you didn't push back on Anthony Wiley's mis-use of the term "oversized" as attributed to what would be a 3/0 tuning pin, which raises the question: what do we mean by "oversized"?   
While Anthony displays a basic understanding of the conceptual geometry/physics?, neither easily or completely encompasses all of the nuances that can contribute to Carl's comment: "The tuning pins never feel the same once rebuilt", to which I'd respond by suggesting a worthwile activity for him, the next time he finds himself on one of them cruises.  

The other misleading proposition Anthony suggests is  "8 ft-lbs of torque to hold its string up to pitch."... vs. 8.3.  First of all, I don't know about yous all, but I speak in inch-pounds when chatting about tuning pin torque.  At that,  consider the range of acceptable torque measurments we encounter in our daily tuning, completely apart from the magical number needed to hold string up to pitch.  It's one of those fancy-shmancy 'imaginary numbers' we encounter on those infrequent occasions where we feel motivated to expand our minds, like after too many days on a cruise ship.  In any case, the difference between 8'lbs (96"lbs.) and 8.3'lbs (99.6'lbs.) is 3.6"lbs.  Not clear whether benzo's or beta-blockers would be the more effective choice in dealing with this issue.

The one possibly useful contribution I can offer is to make sure the HVAC systems are functioning on-board when using the CA.  I'm particularly sensitive to the fumes (yes, I know, there are 'low-odor' versions).  Not sure how well it would go over to have people walking about while I'm working away in my haz-mat suit.  

The solution to oversize tuning pins is to use Lo-Torq pins. The pinblock size is 3.5/0 but the exposed size is 2/0. The geometry here was written about in the journal many years ago. Sure...they're more expensive...but they're far better. Simply charge appropriately. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Terrence,

Generally there are not loose tuning pins on the cruise ship Yamahas.  The pianos are now old enough that they are being rebuilt.  The tuning pins never feel the same once rebuilt.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'd like to see some photos of the drilled bushing technique. Most grands don't have much room to drill without hitting the coils, plate or pins. A Yamaha I tuned yesterday had only about 3mm around the pins.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

I'd like to see some photos of the drilled bushing technique. Most grands don't have much room to drill without hitting the coils, plate or pins. A Yamaha I tuned yesterday had only about 3mm around the pins.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.

Hi All! Long time no chat. Just want to share a few thoughts...

To respond to the actual question asked: I have replaced pins that had been previously treated and they were fine. 

To respond to everyone else: 

- I'm with Anthony Willey for disliking larger pins. If the WHOLE piano has been replaced with larger pins, I won't whine too much because I can change tuning tips and just deal with the other issues, but if it's just a few, particularly if they are huge, it makes me crazy unless I have two levers with two different tips. I had a single pin once that my #3 lever barely fit on! 

- I have used both the split-metal-tube shims and regular veneer as shims around existing pins with success that is superior to CA glue when it comes to holding power and keeping the original feel of the pin. They behave as if I have put in a larger pin, but with zero of the downsides. The only negative is the possibility of making a crack larger, if there is one, but so far I haven't been that unlucky. *crossing fingers* 

- Several of you know me and I know Andy. He isn't like me: I LITERALLY put in as much as it will take because it never worked for me to use a little, because I'm using CA glue on pins that are pulling the lever out of my hand, on pin blocks that are likely splitting, on pianos that would otherwise be going to the dump, rebuilding not being an option. 

I hope some of the above is useful along with everyone else who offered suggestions. If you're in a big hurry, CA may be the only option until you are allowed more time. If you only use the minimum that is required, it shouldn't be a problem for later repairs. Good luck! 

I'd like to see some photos of the drilled bushing technique. Most grands don't have much room to drill without hitting the coils, plate or pins. A Yamaha I tuned yesterday had only about 3mm around the pins.

I'm looking for some opinions on using Ca in pin blocks with loose pins. 

I have treated several pin blocks with much success in extending the life of pianos with pins loose enough that they won't hold.

The reason for this query is that I will soon be seeing a piano on a cruise ship that apparently has loose pins in the treble. It is most likely a Yamaha C3 and probably less than 20 years old. I have tuned close to 100 Yamaha C series on cruise ships and can scarcely remember a loose pin, however, according to a report from another technician there are several loose pins in the treble section of this instrument and they pounded the pins in deeper to get some purchase which, of course can present other tuning stability problems. I have encountered instability in these working pianos largely owing to multiple string replacements-sometimes not very well done- and sometimes hard to control pins because they were backed out too far for the string replacement. But apparently these pins are loose and the prior technician recommends pin replacement. 

The reason I'm asking this question now because I'm not going to have the time or resources to replace pins in this piano during the 6 or so hours I will be onboard with this scant information and am wondering if at least mitigating the problem with Ca glue would hamper pin replacement at a later date. (I'm basically coming aboard to tune this and 3 other C series grands)

In short, my question is exactly that; do you think using Ca glue will hamper tuning pin replacement with larger size pins in the future?

Thanks in advance.