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reattaching ivory

  • 1.  reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2023 10:47

    Greetings,

    It has been decades since I last reattached a loose ivory keytop. When I last did it, it was with one of those cloth wafers impregnated with adhesive that is activated when wetted, the keytop clamped in place with a heated brass plate.

    Wondering if there are any newer, slicker twenty-first century ways of accomplishing this task.

    Thanks,

    Alan



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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  • 2.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2023 17:58
    Hi Alan

    I’ve been using CA glue. I’ve found that the thick viscosity works better, but the medium works, too.

    Put the glue on the key, and attach the ivory on the key. But you have to be fast. Even without the accelerator, it only takes a few seconds for the CA glue to set up. And make sure none of the glue seeped over the sides. If it did, then take a knife and scrape it away. You don’t want to glue two keys together.

    Wim.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 3.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2023 19:00

    Double sided trophy tape will work but one would need to do the head and tail both. 



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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 4.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2023 19:38

    Alan,

    In an effort to declutter, I just designated a couple envelopes of these wafers as trash. I can set them anside and send them to you if you're interested. Let me know 

    Daniel



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    Daniel DeBiasio
    Brooklyn, NY
    646.801.8863
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  • 5.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2023 23:21

    What Wim said.  Don't neglect to dry fit it first, especially for level with the tail.  CA glue is fast and easy but doesn't afford the luxury of do-overs.  I never did have any luck using those glue wafers though I tried.  Once you apply them and put on the clamps they are guaranteed to shift around.  No one ever would have used them in the first place if they'd had access to some of the adhesives we now take for granted.  In a pinch, they are good for one thing though, and that is repairing one of those ancient parchment flanges if you can't lay your hands on some proper goatskin.



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    Cecil Snyder RPT
    Torrance CA
    (310) 542-7108
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  • 6.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2023 09:21
    Alan,

    I use medium CA glue (slo-zap), dry fit first. After good alignment spray accelerator along all edges while holding in place.

    Sent from my iPad
    CarlPianoTech.com




  • 7.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2023 13:43
    Daniel et al;
    "In an effort to declutter, I just designated a couple envelopes of these wafers as trash."
    Please don't trash them! I will admit that I am "old school"  I use Hot Hide glue a lot! While Ivory repair needs are diminishing as the pianos with them are aging out of existence, there is still a need for them, and I don't believe they are still in production. I haven't found anything quite as good as them for doing individual repairs; they match the original construction system, and if prepared correctly keep the head at the same height as the tail (or vice-versa). Yes, during clamping they can "slide around" a bit. I often use a very small heat gun to warm up the clamp while it is clamped and look for bits of glue/water to bubble out the edges-be careful though, as you can easily "burn" the ivory piece! When the tail is well-glued and I'm doing only the head, I put a piece of aluminum or other metal as a "heat sink" to keep from heating the tail too. If it's not the original head being re-glued, then I will carefully trim it to match the key and the surrounding keys. I am fortunate to have picked up quite an assortment of used ivories from retiring technicians (or their surviving spouse). Since I live in Califunny, I am probably breaking some law having these materials around! But I have "saved" many a piano from a complete recovering including my own Ampico Grand, which had about 5 heads badly damaged (it had a rough life in it's later years, drinks spilled on the soundboard, etc.).
    Daniel, I am certain there is some technician out there who would love to have your wafers!
    David "play 'em if ya got 'em (rolls that is)" Dewey





  • 8.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-29-2023 13:21
    David,
    I believe Martha Taylor has a recipe for making your own ivory wafers. I think you take a piece of linen cloth and you paint it or soak it with thinned hide glue, mix in titanium dioxide to whiten it.

    Joe Wiencek




  • 9.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2023 03:11
    That sounds like a plausible way to make substitutes. I have done the same thing with hide glue to make "ivory glue" like that which Tuners' used to supply. It's handy out in the field when you might not be able to clean the old wafer/glue off the key and yet still have the old ivory to put back on.
    David Dewey
     





  • 10.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2023 09:49

    Be carefull not to add too much titanium dioxide.  Glue does not need to be white rather it will beige.  Adding too much titanium dioxide

    weakens the glue bond.  Glue linen first, let dry.  Then glue ivory using heated brass plate.  Use metal side plates to prevent the

    ivory from slipping.  And yes, the wafers are still the best method for ivory repair. We need to all demand that our supplies keep

    supplying these and other essential tools and do not "rationalize" their removal from inventory.  Not all of the great products

    formerly supplied by PianoForte Supply are currently available,  sad.



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    Parker Leigh
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
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  • 11.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2023 10:20
    It depends on how much time is available, Alan. On my own S&S M, I use PVC-E. It is water based so I need to clamp the keytop to the keystick. I can do this without removing the keystick from the piano. I cover the ivory with a brass plate and stack weights on top. I leave it overnight. I have successfully used contact cement, too. I tried thin CA glue but I found that it was too brittle and the keytops popped off with sufficient humidity change. I have never used the thicker versions. Jim Coleman, Jr.’s Tech Bond is more flexible than super glue and I have also had success with that.

    Bob Anderson, RPT
    Tucson, AZ




  • 12.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-29-2023 06:54

    I have the wafers to be the best system for ivory repair.  



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    Parker Leigh
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
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  • 13.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-03-2023 12:47

    CA glue for me! I've done this many many times over 20 years or so and have had good results. Like anything in piano work, you have to develop the right technique. CA glue can be the best thing ever or a nightmare! 

    My technique is to first scape the key clean with a fresh razor blade to make sure to remove any oily residue and get a clean surface. I use the non-sharp edge of the razor blade to clean along the joint. I highly recommend a good headlight and good magnifier glasses. I then like to use the sharp edge of the razor to score some lines in the key to give the glue more surface to attach to. 

    Then I repeat on the ivory: I carefully and thoroughly scape the underside clean and use the non-sharp edge to clean the joint. The idea is to keep the joint as pristine as possible. I then put several drops of glue on the wood: This is important! The glue sets up very quickly in the presence of protein so if you put it on the ivory it will harden too quickly. I have not found accelerator necessary. 

    Also try to keep the glue away from the joint, as one of the goals is to have the joint be as invisible as possible. 

    As other mentioned dry fit it while looking carefully at the joint and sides of keys with your light and magnifier to get a practice run at fitting the ivory. Like others said this is pretty much a one shot deal!

    Then I lay the keytop down starting at the joint, putting good positive pressure into the joint while rolling the keytop downward towards the wood surface. This will push glue away from the joint and not towards it. It can give also give you chance to fine tune the fit of the joint: It should be as exact as you can manage, thus the magnifier glasses and light are helpful.

    One I get the top laid down, I immediately take my long voicing block and use it to very firmly press down on the keytop. I usually use the corner of it so I can put a lot of pressure on the point of contact and putting my weight on the block rub it back and forth to really mate the surfaces - this helps get the keytop flush with the tail piece. 

    The whole procedure takes about 5 minutes and sometimes it's very difficult to tell that the ivory ever detached. 

    Another important item: initial and date the keystick. Clients will sometimes accuse your repair of detaching when another one falls off in the future. If you initial and date it, you can point it out to them and they will believe you!



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    Ryan Sowers RPT
    Olympia WA
    (360) 480-5648
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  • 14.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-03-2023 15:47

    Ryan, 

    The problem with your method is that most ivory is translucent; without the white in the wafer or glue, the ivory will now not match the others.

    David Dewey






  • 15.  RE: reattaching ivory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-03-2023 18:15

    Ah, good point David! I should have said that my procedure works best if the old pigment or wafer is still intact. Most of the time, the old wafer is still on the keystick and just needs to be scraped clean. In cases where there is bare wood, I've used white primer on the wood prior to gluing the keytop back on. 



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    Ryan Sowers RPT
    Olympia WA
    (360) 480-5648
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