Pianotech

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

Wim .... make the notch end of the piece of weed   I think you meant wood.... Baldwin had some type of tool to do the height at the hitch pin but I think a wood guide to set the height will work just fine My understanding of this system is that it helps with the crown of the soundboard and is a factory setting. I think the height should be further down the pin. There is the same piano at a dealer near here so maybe I can get one of my tech friends to measure. I also have a customer with an accu just hitch pin system that I think is the same model

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 12:17
From: Tremaine Parsons
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

So topics such as this is the main reason i created my youtube channel. I have over 400 videos on piano rebuilding and i specialized in many of the "weeds" of piano construction and design to make it unique. I have a few vids on setting downbearing with the accu-just sysem. I also have a vid on how to make your own bubble gauge as an example.

Don't feel bad, i encourage Techs to go there and learn what you can from it and use it or not.

And don't forget to like and subscribe and recommend what you would like to see in the future. I have many rebuilds in front of me, so i most likely can fill a request.

All the Best,

-chris

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Chris,

I viewed your YouTube video on adjusting Baldwin Acu-just downbearing. That process is incorrect. You are using the speaking length of the string as a reference point. The reference point needs to be the bridge cap plane. 

Roger

So topics such as this is the main reason i created my youtube channel. I have over 400 videos on piano rebuilding and i specialized in many of the "weeds" of piano construction and design to make it unique. I have a few vids on setting downbearing with the accu-just sysem. I also have a vid on how to make your own bubble gauge as an example.

Don't feel bad, i encourage Techs to go there and learn what you can from it and use it or not.

And don't forget to like and subscribe and recommend what you would like to see in the future. I have many rebuilds in front of me, so i most likely can fill a request.

All the Best,

-chris

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

I don't know Roger but you may get some push back on this. Looking at the Lowell Bubble Gauge instructions I appears that using the speaking length is described as measuring the "net" downbearing. Instructions here.

I have not yet watched the video by Chris

Chris,

I viewed your YouTube video on adjusting Baldwin Acu-just downbearing. That process is incorrect. You are using the speaking length of the string as a reference point. The reference point needs to be the bridge cap plane. 

Roger

So topics such as this is the main reason i created my youtube channel. I have over 400 videos on piano rebuilding and i specialized in many of the "weeds" of piano construction and design to make it unique. I have a few vids on setting downbearing with the accu-just sysem. I also have a vid on how to make your own bubble gauge as an example.

Don't feel bad, i encourage Techs to go there and learn what you can from it and use it or not.

And don't forget to like and subscribe and recommend what you would like to see in the future. I have many rebuilds in front of me, so i most likely can fill a request.

All the Best,

-chris

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Not in my experience.  If you are lowering or raising the plate, the nose bolts need to be reset also.  There may still be some flexing of the plate near the pinblock area, but I believe that would be small

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

I have dismantled several grands that turned out to have seriously contorted plates straight out of the factory. Flexed so badly that, had I done it, I would have anticipated breaking the plate. But no damage. There's more wiggle room there than we were led to believe. I will of course correct what I can, but I can't always eliminate all of it. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Not in my experience.  If you are lowering or raising the plate, the nose bolts need to be reset also.  There may still be some flexing of the plate near the pinblock area, but I believe that would be small

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

I have dismantled several grands that turned out to have seriously contorted plates straight out of the factory. Flexed so badly that, had I done it, I would have anticipated breaking the plate. But no damage. There's more wiggle room there than we were led to believe. I will of course correct what I can, but I can't always eliminate all of it. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Not in my experience.  If you are lowering or raising the plate, the nose bolts need to be reset also.  There may still be some flexing of the plate near the pinblock area, but I believe that would be small

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

------------------------------
Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

------------------------------
Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
------------------------------

Flexing the plate as much as you want is okay, until something breaks, then its not okay. Then you have a big new problem. At my company we don't flex the plates at all because we take the extra effort to make sure the bridge cap and string rest interface is correctly set before stringing. But also the beauty of the accu-just system is that their is some wiggle room for correcting small errors.

-chris

Veering off subject, but I have to ask the following:

If you raise or lower the plate with WNG bolts after stringing, with the plate firmly screwed to the pinblock, you are flexing the plate. Is this a problem?

Roger, I believe that you are a rebuilder, yes?  If so, you can have it both ways by using WNG plate bolts or making your own.version thereof.  You can set plate height globally with the adjustable plate bolts, and dial it in for each string with the vertical hitch pin modification.  It can be adjusted after stringing also.  

Chris,

I've always reasoned that Baldwins acu-just system was an excellent method to adjust downbearing, especially on aging boards. Unfortunately, it only addresses the duplex side of the bridge. There are caveats when you only address the duplex side. There could be excessive downbearing on the speaking side, creating too much net downbearing or there could be excessive negative downbearing. If so, the net downbearing could possibly pull the bridge/soundboard up - although that would be a rarity. I have found these imbalanced conditions are not an exception as you state. They are a condition that exists almost 100% in both new and old pianos.

 It's unfortunate my false beat treatise took so long to complete and submit for Journal publication, as this issue is addressed in great detail. Scott Cole informs me it won't be published until possibly January and I'm unwilling to address this subject in a condensed form for this forum.

 P.S. Chris, may I suggest you place a disclaimer on the YouTube video stating your acu-just demonstration is not for educational purposes.

Hi Roger,

Lets just say for a moment you are correct on point, but I believe that would be more the exception and not the rule. On old boards you have to make compromises and use common sense to make things work with  "damaged" goods. I for the most part work on new soundboards with a 50' radius and set the the bride height and bearings within my preferred tolerances. My videos are not educational videos per se, but are more "in the moment" videos that can be learned from. So, every possible scenario is not implied.

All the best.

-chris

Tremaine,

The original bubble gauge was made by Tom Lowell sold through Pianotec. Over the years I purchased two from them. When Schaff took over Pianotec I purchased another one for my false beat research. I was disappointed. The construction was compromised. The glass bubble tube fell out, the bearing pin bound up prohibiting any meaningful reading and the calibration angle was so far off that the adjustment screw always needed to be set at the extreme end for most pianos. 

I meant to also include that I have most often seen rebuilders use the bubble gauge method to set accu-just hitch pins. I can't recall off hand who initially sold the downbearing bubble gauge and if they are still available. Can anyone update on availability? 

I personally believe that this would be the best method.

Roger,

You have raised an excellent point. David explained this method around 1990 and he may have refined it. I should have mentioned that I believe the method was intended to be a guide and did not intend to give absolute correct numbers. Unfortunately we can no longer consult with David on this. I should update the web page to include this point. I've always been mostly a messenger so you have given me a "heads up" with good food for thought.

Tremaine,

Reading from David Betts diagram (http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm I'm unsure if his calculation is correct regarding proper downbearing. Help me here. It appears he is simply calculating from some arbitrary point on the top of the bridge to that of the aliquot to acquire an appropriate downbearing angle. If my understanding is correct, then his angle calculations are incorrect. Proper downbearing angle is not derived from some arbitrary point at the top of the bridge but calculated from the surface plane line of the bridge to that of the aliquot.

Tim,

You can also use the below method taught to my by the late David Betts of NBSS. You can use this as a reference depending of the crown on the soundboard. You can use drill bits for gauges.

http://goptools.com/dbearing.htm

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Tremaine Parsons RPT
Georgetown CA
(530) 333-9299

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2024 03:25
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 9:49:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Restringing Baldwin acu-just with interesting issue

Hello,

I'm restringing my first Baldwin (model L) with acu-just hitch pins. I spent some time with factory documents and I think I have my head wrapped around the system. To set downbearing, I have a digital level/angle gauge placed on top of a downbearing rocker gauge, zeroed out when tilted on the speaking length.  I then rock towards the hitch pin for exact angle. I'm puzzled: when restringing, I placed the strings towards the top of the hitch pin and was still getting positive bearing. Moving the string up any more is not possible, and the portion that needs to be set with 0.5 degrees (notes 23-40 off the top of my head) is reading around 1 degree. I took photos prior to removing the strings, and the strings were significantly farther down the hitch pin in the original configuration.

I believe the piano did spend years in a much drier climate before being moved to South Central PA. It has had a Dampp Chaser for many years at this point as well. 

Questions:

1. Is it possible downbearing was set for a drier climate?
2.  How close to the top of the hitch pins can I safely set the string?
3. Additional advice in this situation?
4.  Am I missing something

 Thank you!

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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
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