Pianotech

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

I've found that Fomblin, available from Supply88.com, works better and is longer lasting than Protek for seized flanges. 

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Everyone,

I thank all of you for your replies. I have just come home from the piano. I repinned another 21 flanges. I also hit all 88 with Protek, although the suggestion of vodka and a hair drier is probably a better course. I'll just have to see how today's work holds up. I do believe the 21 I repinned today were new instances, and not my former repinning work seizing up. All told, I have repinned perhaps 45 flanges, all in the middle of the keyboard. This might indicate seizing relative to the number of shank rotations to date by the piano's owner, a fine classical pianist. The piano is new (straight from Poland via a local dealer) to this owner since March, 2024. The bass and high treble are remarkably free. Of course, today I marked with chalk all 21 I worked on. I simply didn't realized the problem was going to be widespread when I first repinned a handful

 of shanks - otherwise I would have chalked them for tracking reference, too.

I took a photo of a sample shank. On almost every shank, on the bass side, is an ink-jet printed green line, near the bushing hole. The shanks are hexagonal in cross section. Could this indicate Able parts?

David G. Hughes, RPT

I've found that Fomblin, available from Supply88.com, works better and is longer lasting than Protek for seized flanges. 

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Mr. Hughes,

I had a similar problem with a set of Abel shanks a year or so ago. In my case they were tight out of the box +- 15 grams and were immune to treatment with 50% alcohol 50% water. I followed Mr. Mannino's recommended procedure and reamed and re-pinned all 88. About 4 months after installation they were starting to get a little tight again but not like the original condition. In despair I put a drop of Jon Page's CBL on each bushing and haven't had a problem since. I share Mr. Mannino's distaste for lubricating center pin bushings but in this case I wasn't prepared to re-bush the entire set.

Everyone,

I thank all of you for your replies. I have just come home from the piano. I repinned another 21 flanges. I also hit all 88 with Protek, although the suggestion of vodka and a hair drier is probably a better course. I'll just have to see how today's work holds up. I do believe the 21 I repinned today were new instances, and not my former repinning work seizing up. All told, I have repinned perhaps 45 flanges, all in the middle of the keyboard. This might indicate seizing relative to the number of shank rotations to date by the piano's owner, a fine classical pianist. The piano is new (straight from Poland via a local dealer) to this owner since March, 2024. The bass and high treble are remarkably free. Of course, today I marked with chalk all 21 I worked on. I simply didn't realized the problem was going to be widespread when I first repinned a handful

 of shanks - otherwise I would have chalked them for tracking reference, too.

I took a photo of a sample shank. On almost every shank, on the bass side, is an ink-jet printed green line, near the bushing hole. The shanks are hexagonal in cross section. Could this indicate Able parts?

David G. Hughes, RPT

I've found that Fomblin, available from Supply88.com, works better and is longer lasting than Protek for seized flanges. 

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

------------------------------
David Hughes RPT
Vintage Case Parts
Glyndon MD
(443) 522-2201
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/28/2024 7:48:00 AM
From: David Hughes
Subject: Seizing Hammer Shanks

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

------------------------------
David Hughes RPT
Vintage Case Parts
Glyndon MD
(443) 522-2201
------------------------------

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

I recall a chapter using Fantastic cleaner and it worked really well. I think at first it would seize up but then loosen overnight, or something like that. Not sure if the Fantastic was deluded or used straight.

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Fantastic was used to neutralize the acids in old verdigris infected Steinway parts.  I don't think it is appropriate in this case.

I recall a chapter using Fantastic cleaner and it worked really well. I think at first it would seize up but then loosen overnight, or something like that. Not sure if the Fantastic was deluded or used straight.

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

"1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him,"

As we know, once you do any work then it becomes your problem.  I would replace the shanks, which is the only guaranteed solution.  

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

David Weiss,

The problem is not mine. I did not rebuild the the piano, I did not promote or sell the piano. We as piano technicians do the best we can to serve our customers once a piano is in the home. I have explained all this to my client, he understands fully, and does not hold me responsible for his frustration and inconvenience.

I am now preparing a brief letter to the dealer, explaining what's going on. It shall be the dealer's problem (technically and financially) to resolve the matter. We go to bat when we can, but we do not own our customers' pianos and their related problems (unless, of course, we created some malfunction, which we must rectify immediately at no cost). We have enough trouble keeping our dishwashers churning and maintaining fresh batteries in our TV remotes. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

"1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him,"

As we know, once you do any work then it becomes your problem.  I would replace the shanks, which is the only guaranteed solution.  

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

David Weiss,

The problem is not mine. I did not rebuild the the piano, I did not promote or sell the piano. We as piano technicians do the best we can to serve our customers once a piano is in the home. I have explained all this to my client, he understands fully, and does not hold me responsible for his frustration and inconvenience.

I am now preparing a brief letter to the dealer, explaining what's going on. It shall be the dealer's problem (technically and financially) to resolve the matter. We go to bat when we can, but we do not own our customers' pianos and their related problems (unless, of course, we created some malfunction, which we must rectify immediately at no cost). We have enough trouble keeping our dishwashers churning and maintaining fresh batteries in our TV remotes. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

"1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him,"

As we know, once you do any work then it becomes your problem.  I would replace the shanks, which is the only guaranteed solution.  

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT

If it comes down to rebushing and repining all the flanges it's probably faster and cheaper to just install a new, and better, set of shanks and flanges, or if available, just a set of quality flanges already bushed. 

Cecil Snyder,

Thank you for your insights. I have two thoughts: 1) The problem is not mine, it's that of the piano's owner and the dealer who sold it to him, and 2) I dread rebushing parts. I have never been adept at it, and I am not talented enough to perform a factory-quality job. If I were king, I'd pop all the hammers off the shanks and flanges, install new (dependable) shanks and flanges, re-hang the hammers, and regulate. If the piano were mine (playing the role of my client), I'd want the seizing parts out of my action once and for all for peace of mind.

David G. Hughes, RPT

Vodka, or denatured alcohol is a cure for a specific problem, namely bushing cloth which had not been sized properly.   This was common for a time in the 60s and 70s with Wurlitzers and such but I haven't seen it piano of this era.   This reminds me more of the type of problem with some more modern Korean and Chinese pianos:  they will go along for a time then suddenly manifest sluggishness seemingly at random and not just with the hammers, but also in the damper undercover flanges and others.  This is what Don Mannino was talking about and was a fault of the bushing cloth itself.  

I assume we're talking about hammer flanges specifically here.  Whippen and jack flanges are pinned to looser specs.  When I first encounter this I will repin the affected flanges, mark them with chalk and explain to the customer that this problem is likely to recur without warning.  If a great number of the flanges have been affected I think in the long run it would be easier for everyone concerned to just rebush and repin all the flanges.  In a new or newly restored piano this should be certainly be a warranty issue.  This is aggravating for the customer, a big hit for the dealer but, for the technician, anything less can only come back to haunt him.  It doesn't matter if it's not your fault, you have now made it your problem.  And this is something that can much easier be done in the shop than in the customer's house with some significant saving of time and control of the finished product.  I've used Renner's bushing cloth with good results, and I finish off with a heated broach for consistency before I repin.

I think your best bet is to do all 88 and keep track with chaulk if you want to try samples. It is reminiscent of the problems that plaque certain makes of pianos. New flanges will not solve the issue since the problem is in the pin bushing contact which is in the hammer shank. Poor quality bushing cloth could be a factor something I ran into on a Baldwin grand. No matter what I did with lubes, teflon, reaming and burnishing, new pins the same 2 notes kept seizing . I would suggest popping out the center pins and the bushings and look at smoothness of the pin cut, plating . At the same time examine the felt for quality , loose strands of wool fiber. repin and rebush some samples with top quality parts and be careful of the amount of glue. Playing the piano generates heat and can cause seizing .

If the flanges and shanks are original maybe the parts have some of the parrafin bleeding out of course you mentioned all new parts I think 

Wims idea of contacting the rebuilder is good to at least find out the parts source. Hopefully the issue is not with whippens and damper flanges

Everyone,

I have a customer with a 1920s Hamburg Steinway M. The piano was recently beautifully restored in Poland - one of the finest rebuilding jobs I have ever encountered. However, the hammer flanges are seizing up miserably. I cannot identify the brand of shanks and flanges - they do not bear the embossed Renner logo. I have been repinning seized notes, but foolishly I have not been identifying the parts I have "corrected" (remove existing pin, ream bushing, install new pin). Therefore I do not know if my repinning is failing as well, or whether I'm encountering notes I haven't addressed yet. I'm going again today - perhaps this time I will hit them all with Protek, too.

Ultimately, what is the solution? Repin them all? Install 88 different (new) flanges? Another chemical treatment? Can anyone guess at the manufacturer of these shanks and flanges?

Thanks.

David G. Hughes, RPT