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strange false beats

  • 1.  strange false beats

    Posted 20 days ago

    Working on a little Wurlitzer spinet yesterday, I encountered something I don't remember seeing (or hearing) before (there's always something new, no?):    Virtually EVERY unwound string exhibited a faint false beat.  Aside from it being present on almost every unwound string, they were all beating at the same rate!   (How does THAT happen?)  At any rate, upon examining the bridges and bridge pins, I found no anomalies, and a good "rap" with a screwdriver revealed nothing unglued.  Soundboard looked good, and I could see no issues with the pressure bar.  It wasn't likely prominent enough for the customer to notice, but it drove me crazy trying to figure out how this was happening!   What am I missing?  

    -- Tim



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Perhaps something not the piano?



    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 20 days ago

    Ceiling fan rotating? That will drive anyone nuts. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 9 days ago

    Hi Peter.  No ceiling fan was in the room.  

    -- Tim



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago
    A little anecdote. My first year piano tuning as a complete greenhorn I was working for a Yamaha dealer. He sent me out to do a warranty tuning to a new customer that had just bought a brand new console. As I was tuning it, I kept thinking there's something really wrong with this piano! Sounds terrible!! what do I do? Do I tell the customer? Do I not tell the customer? Do I call the dealer? I felt really bad that this customer had bought a defective brand new Yamaha.

    Then, a tiny little nightlight bulb went on. I saw the ceiling fan, and I wondered, hmm. What would happen if I turned it off? Bingo!  

    Since then, I have found many times that a ceiling fan in a completely different room or even a different part of the house can sometimes cause this.

    Peter







  • 6.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago
    I had a similar experience the first year I was tuning. Except that the fan was off when I tuned the piano. The customer called me a day later to tell me the piano sounded off. I went there and checked it and both of us agreed that the piano sounded fine. He called me again that evening. I immediately went over there, and that is when the fan was on.  

    In Hawaii, just about all houses and rooms have fans. Asking the customer to turn off the fan was the first thing I would say when I entered the house.

    Wim







  • 7.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    I have tuned two grand pianos (Kimbals?) with bridge agraffes that also did this.  The same simple false beat all through the agraffe section (which was discontinued in the higher treble). To me this suggests that we need to carefully examine the bridge contact points.  What was the innovative bridge design with a third verticle bridge pin?  I never tuned one but would love to see if that had any interesting components.



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    Blaine,

    Are you referring to the Wapin design?

    Alan



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    I doubt that would contribute to any "false" beating. 

    Some years ago I cared for a 1999 Steinway L that exhibited massive pitch fluctuation on most notes in the midsection while tuning. IOW, on impact the pitch typically would rise and fall quite a bit before settling down (not able to recall exact amounts at this point, but it was enough that I could detect it aurally without any interval beat comparisons). Needless to say, this made tuning very strange indeed, especially for an analogite like me. Interestingly, the owner did not particularly like the piano, but was unable to explain why...it was just plain weird to him. 

    Eventually I restrung the piano and it was much better for a while, but gradually the same behavior started creeping back in to it. Obviously it was "baked in" to the piano somehow. Eventually he had had enough and traded it in for a new B...problem solved. I never was able to figure out the cause of this in the L. (He had bought it at a "university sale" at a fairly good price, if that says anything...)

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 19 days ago

    I never liked the L scale fwiw and have always preferred the model O scale. My understanding is that the L is a chopped off B scale which

    was created for marketing reasons to make the lineup of all Steinway grands more visually appealing.



    ------------------------------
    Parker Leigh RPT
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 18 days ago

    I have heard that some cheaper pianos were tuned very sharp when in the factory so that fewer pitch raises were necessary after they received their strings. I believe it's possible that some/all strings were tuned sharp enough that the strings start to elastically deform at certain points, creating false beats from the strings themselves. 



    ------------------------------
    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 18 days ago

    Mr Leigh,

    I think perhaps you are confusing the model L with another piano. The model L combined the last of Henry Ziegler's scales for the model O with the heavier plate and wider tail of the model A.



    ------------------------------
    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 18 days ago

    Senior moment! 

    Have you ever worked with a Wapin bridge piano?  Did it have any tonal characteristics or inherant beating?



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 17 days ago

    I have wapined several pianos at the University of Kentucky and have never noticed any strange beating. There is some enhanced sustain but nothing I would want to get rid of. I did also do an experiment with something like bridge agraffes (I called them bridge pressure bars) that had some strange tonal qualities in the treble. It worked well in the bass.



    ------------------------------
    John Pope
    University of Kentucky School of Music
    Lexington, KY
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11 days ago

    As to the original post, I think Peter probably nailed it. Those symtoms really sound like a ceiling fan.



    ------------------------------
    John Pope
    University of Kentucky School of Music
    Lexington, KY
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 9 days ago

    Following because this happened to me and even when I moved strings, the best rate stayed the same. For me, it was a Baldwin grand. It did that for a couple years and just randomly stopped. 



    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 9 days ago

    I used to tune a piano in a house in which the old refrigerator pump was running all the time, at least whenever I was there. It's not something one might even notice unless focused on listening to the piano. It made a low thrumming sound. Likewise other appliances, dishwasher's, clothes dryers, etc. can be putting out subsonic pulses; florescent light ballasts.



    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 9 days ago

    Tim,

    No ceiling fan...good, as that clearly eliminates that possibility. I re-read your OP and now say: Since it is not bothering the client...best (probably) to just forget about it and roll with it. I suspect that's what you have actually done by now. And, it's just a PSO anyway, so...

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    Peter P.,

    That's a good tip to know...about an adjacent room or even elsewhere.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    Anyone have any ideas about a beat speed that only sounds when the strings are sounding and never changes speed when the pitch is changed? (no fan)



    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    I'm fresh out. No clue...other than some "system" somewhere in the vicinity (either inside or outside) that is somehow interacting with the vibration of the piano.   

    Maggie, that is an interesting and tactful way of bringing it back to the OP.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 8 days ago

    Perhaps an echo or reverb, such as between two plate glass windows or a hard surfaced staircase.



    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    "...or a hard surfaced staircase." That's an interesting one I hadn't considered. 
    Btw, an engineer once told me the effect off of ceiling fans is due to the echos bouncing off the moving blades.



    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    Maggie, I think that pretty much rules out the strings as the direct cause though they could be driving some other part of the piano in some mysterious way. Longitudinal waves remain constant, being length, not tension, based but they wouldn't remain constant from note to note.



    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    And LM waves are typically very high.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago

    Tim,

    In re-reading your OP you simply mention a false that all (most) plain wire strings have, with the same beat rate. Does the frequency of this false beat remain the same, or does it follow sequentially up the scale with each note? Or is that even discernible?

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 7 days ago

    Hello Peter.  

    That's what was so strange about this.  Normally, false beats change frequency, depending upon the pitch of the string(s).  In this case, the "false" beat frequency remained the same regardless of the pitch of the string(s).  Additionally, these "false" beats were much less prominent than any others I've encountered.  Drawing from my audio engineering background:  If these "false" beats were backup vocals, I would have said that they were too far back in the mix!  It was much easier to differentiate between the false beats and the string(s) I was tuning, many of which had their own "usual/normal" false beats.  These "strange" false beats were ONLY audible when the strings (plain ones) were producing tone.  No sound from the strings = no "strange" false beats (virtually eliminating any nearby equipment from the equation).  Additionally, they were present across a MUCH wider range than I normally encounter on these little cheap spinets.  I noticed them even down into octaves 4 and above. I thought perhaps some piece of hardware somewhere was producing the sound, but after tapping around on the piano (plate, action brackets, etc.) I was unable to produce anything at all.   I've been tuning since 1977, and have never encountered anything like this.  I'm glad the customer didn't notice it because I would've been at a complete loss for any solution.  

    -- Tim



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago

    I once wrote out a list of possible causes of false beats, my list is now up to 30 possible causes (list available on request).

    If a string is vibrating with a false beat it essentially has two (or more) frequencies that it is vibrating at.  Piano strings initially vibrate in the direction that they are struck, but they quickly evolve into a circular motion.  If there is a difference in vibrating at the bearing points such that in one direction the string is vibrating with one length but in another direction it has a functional length that is different then the string will have two different frequencies.  This is the reason that rebuilders and manufacturers take such care in carving the bridge contact point.  In a properly carved bridge the contact point of the string should be clean and sharp with the edge of the bridge cut at the center of the bridge pin.

    If you have a poorly cut spinet bridge with a shelf or gap at the bridge then the string essentially can have two functional lengths.  If the bridge was cut uniformly like this then you might have similar false beats from string to string.  No amount of string seating will eliminate the difference, only pulling bridge pins and recarving the bridge will fix this.  On a spinet this is quite impractical.

    I repeat my observation that some grand pianos with bridge agraffes have a simple and consistent false beat across the agraffe section, suggesting that the contact point or bend at the bridge is producing the false beat. In the high treble where there are no agraffes, only the usual bridge pins, I found the usual cacophony of false beats.

    Note that this is only a hypothesis, I am not claiming that this is the ultimate answer.



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 7 days ago

    Hello Blaine, 

    Let me see if I understand you correctly:  You're suggesting that a concave area between the upper and lower bridge pins on one of these spinets, (since there is a relatively uniform distance between those bridge pins) could cause a relatively uniform "false" beat rate, regardless of the pitch of the affected strings?   That's definitely weird, but perhaps the only plausible explanation of what I was hearing at this point.  

    Interesting. 

    -- Tim



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago

    The ideal or theoretical condition of a string should be a perfectly straight string with no bends, kinks or stresses at both terminations.  Unfortunately, the nature of the capo bar and bridge puts a curving stress at both terminations.  If the string "wants" to vibrate in a circular (jump-rope) fashilon it will behave differently in the verticle and horizontal direction, with more than one frequency being generated.  Since pushing on the bridge pin in one direction or another often ends the false beat this might be because you have reduced the motion in one direction. Seating the string at the bridge might eliminate or reduce the beat because it makes the termination more uniform in both directions.  I have often noted new inexpensive pianos with clean sounding strings that are visibly arched over the bridge and "seated" or manipulated, older pianos with much worse sounding strings, in fact I frequently note that larger, expensive ppianos have visibly mangled bridge contact points from years of technicians doing enthusiastic "string seating".  I know one 9' Kawai that has an untunable treble with quite visibly bent strings at the capo bar and bridge and I even noted pianos at the PTG convention with mangled treble strings.

    Are we creating the problem?



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 390-0512
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago

    The more I know the less I understand. There are three terminations for each string. At the capo or agraffe a massy termination. At the bridge a massy termination in the plane of the soundboard and a lossy termination in a 90° orientation to the soundboard. So the speaking length varies from one orientation to the other!



    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago

    Timothy,

    After reading your original post stating the false beats situation on a Wurlitzer spinet, you are not hearing false beats. It is physically impossible for all plain wire strings to produce the same false beat rate. Consider what a false beat is. It is the beat produced by the differential termination stiffness in the "X" and "Y" vector. That differential will create only a slight frequency variance between the two vectors. The rate of the beat is determined by the inertia in the wire. The plain string at the F3 has more inertia than C8. It is impossible for the inertia in the F3 string to have a 5-beat rate or the C8 string to have a 1-beat rate.



    ------------------------------
    Roger Gable RPT
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    (425) 252-5000
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago

    Which is why I hypothesize that, although it "resembles" a false beat, it in fact must be something else.  But as stated...its a good thing the owner doesn't sense it (for obvious reasons). And Tim is very astute to NOT draw attention to it. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 6 days ago

    Blaine's comments got me thinking about something I neglected to check during this puzzle:  Is it possible that two non-speaking lengths of string(s), perhaps between the bridge and hitch pins were being excited by the vibrations from the bridge, producing a faint beat frequency that was present throughout most of the treble?   



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: strange false beats

    Posted 6 days ago

    30+ years ago I tuned a piano in a recital hall that had plate glass windows.

    There was a very precise repeating echo when the piano was in the middle between the windows.

    The same echo occurred when you clapped, a typical acoustic test.

    The echo repeated the attack sound, maybe about 4 times/second, dying away as the string sound continued.

    Perceptually, it sounded like a very strong false beat at the beginning of the sound, tapering away during the sustain.

    [In a different situation, a school called with an emergency: They were about to begin the rededication ceremony for a historic building which had been repurposed as the music school. They had moved a piano into the entance hall, and something was wrong with the pedal- the dampers were not working.

    Arriving, I found the pedal and dampers working very well. But the piano was at the bottom of a three story marble staircase. The reverb really did sound like there were no dampers.

    Later I learned that as a reward for a good rehearsal, the choir director would bring the chorus into the stairwell for a song or two.]



    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 6 days ago
    You could test that possibility next visit with cloth or even tape covering the non-speaking length.

    Joe Wiencek
    NYC




  • 37.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 3 days ago

    Is it possible that two non-speaking lengths of string(s), perhaps between the bridge and hitch pins were being excited by the vibrations from the bridge, producing a faint beat frequency that was present throughout most of the treble?

    I think it's a faint possibility but highly unlikely given everything else you've described.  For one thing if sections of wire are getting excited enough to produce an audible beat, I think you'd have noticed them ringing after the original notes were damped.  You'd also hear a good bit of other audible chaos as they produced beats with the notes you were actively playing -- and that would vary from note to note.

    I really think any time you have a consistent beat that happens throughout the piano... Occam's razor says look at the environment.  It's quite simple to produce a consistent beat rate across many notes with a fan (which I know we've ruled out) or an echo.  It's extremely complicated to produce a consistent beat rate across many notes with wires under tension that have a specific resonant frequency (or frequencies, in the case of a false beating wire).  And not have any anomalies that would catch the notice of an experienced piano tuner, to boot.  That doesn't mean it's never happened in the history of physics, it's just unlikely.
    ------------------------------
    Nathan Monteleone RPT
    Fort Worth TX
    (817) 675-9494
    nbmont@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    Roger, while I agree with you and Peter that the same beat rate spanning many notes is likely a tell that the root cause of the beating is not false beats, I think your description lacks clarity.  When I hear the beating we are talking about here, it is by way of contrast an orderly and consistent pattern to my ears, whereas false beats are more random and chaotic.  Listening to them while looking at my Tunelab display, I can separate the false beats from this pattern. Interestingly, the pitch is rising and falling in that pattern, and I can hear the changes in pitch.

    I know what X and Y vectors are, but it is not clear in your explanation what you are referencing in terms of string behavior (if that is what you are talking about).  What exactly constitutes the X and Y vectors for you?  

    I am also not clear as to what you perceive the role of inertia that creates the slightly out of phase beating that we hear.  The F3 string will have more inertia than the C8 string because the F3 string has more mass because the string is much thicker and far longer.  F3 will be much stiffer also.  But the fact that C8 is physically so distant and clearly in its own unique setting robs me of the opportunity to make a meaningful connection between the two that is descriptive of real phenomena.

    Wherein lies the causal link that bridges inertia and the beat rates?



    ------------------------------
    William Truitt RPT
    Bridgewater NH
    (603) 744-2277
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 3 days ago

    William,

    Sorry for the delay, I had difficulty signing in to myptg.org.

    Yes, I admit my response may lack clarity. I try to keep my responses short. Short text draws more readers.

    Your statement, "Listening to them while looking at my Tunelab display, I can separate the false beats from this pattern.

    What," this" are you referring to?

    Your statement, "What exactly constitutes the X and Y vectors for you?

     The X vector is the movement of the string parallel to the soundboard and the Y vector is the movement of the string perpendicular to the soundboard. The false beat is created by a dipropionate stiffness of the termination in the X and Y vector

    Your statement, "I am also not clear as to what you perceive the role of inertia that creates the slightly out of phase beating that we hear. 

    The inertia does not create a slightly out of phase beating "per se". The inertia dictates boundaries of the speed of the false beat. A nearly perfect balanced termination will create a slow false beat within the boundaries of the inertia of a given string. The inertia in a long heavy gauge wire lies outside the boundaries of a fast-beating false beat, whereas a short light weight string will not beat at slow rate. To give you an example; a string with a distorted termination vibrating at 100 cps (hertz's) can only produce a distortion rate in the X and Y vectors of about 2 cps. The inertia is too great to vibrate much higher. The opposite if true in the short higher frequency strings.

    Your statement." F3 will be much stiffer also. "Your F3 reference to C8. You need to restate or rethink that.

    Your statement," But the fact that C8 is physically so distant and clearly in its own unique setting robs me of the opportunity to make a meaningful connection between the two that is descriptive of real phenomena.

    You lost me on that.

    P.S. I would encourage you to read the articles, False Beats Understanding through Critical Thinking, in the February and March 2025 PTG Journal



    ------------------------------
    Roger Gable RPT
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    (425) 252-5000
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 3 days ago

    Hi Roger:

    I too admit that my responses may lack clarity. :-)

    What I was referring to was the pattern of beating that one can hear in multiple notes at certain times. It can coexist with false beats, but is not the same thing.  Its pattern and regularity are visually distinct and sound like the pattern I am seeing.  My two cents tells me that the source is bridge roll.  Why bridge roll?  Bridge roll originates from the collectively enormous torsion that comes from the front bridge pin tops leaning toward the bass at an angle of 70 to 75 degrees to horizontal, and the rear pins leaning towards the treble at 70 to 75 degrees. With a span of say 18 mm, this means that all the front pins are pulling towards the treble side, and all the rear pins are pulling towards the bass side, they work to twist the bridge.  The bridge is restrained, so that, along with string tension works to roll the bridge forward and down.  This can distort the soundboard panel into a sine curve, down in the front and up in the back.  When sounding, the bridge is rocking forward and down in a regular pattern, the pitch rises and falls. 

    X and Y vectors most commonly denote the horizontal and vertical vectors.  

    As best I understand what you are saying is that the mass of a string dictates how fast the beats can be in a string.  Of course, there is a strong connection between mass and inertia.  So I think what you are saying is correct.  

    I would be grateful if you could define what a nearly perfect balanced termination would be.  It is not a flippant or demanding question.  There is a lot going on in that simple string rounding a corner on a pin set at an asymmetrical angle.  

    Stiffness can have two distinct meanings.  One is material - such as Modulus of Elasticity.  If made from the same steel, F3 and C8 would have the same MOE.  The other is structural.  F3 has a larger diameter pin (perhaps .086"), and C8 might be .076".  F3 would have a higher bending stiffness than C8.

    I read your articles a couple of times and enjoyed them, and shared a couple of emails with you.



    ------------------------------
    William Truitt RPT
    Bridgewater NH
    (603) 744-2277
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: strange false beats

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 6 hours ago

    William,

    In a practical sense, the violin has the perfect termination. Both ends of the string are terminated on a single narrow point and their duplexes are free to vibrate equally in the X and Y vector. The piano has one single point, the capo or agraffe, and the opposite end, a flat bridge; the flat bridge poses special termination issues by restricting the freedom of movement in the X vector, although both ends of piano wire pose additional angular stress tensions in both the X and Y vectors because of the stiffness of the wire. These stresses can be reduced or eliminated with proper bending techniques.

    Another way of explaining the false beat issue is: The pitch of a wire is 99% determined by the length, diameter and tension. The remaining 1or 2% is dictated by the stiffness of the termination in either the X and/or Y vector. That 1 or 2% bps (beats per second) is largely influenced by the mass; large mass equals slower bps, and lighter mass equals faster bps.

    P.S. I hope the findings illustrated in the "False Beats – Understanding through Critical Thinking", lays to rest the age-long myth that loose bridge pins cause false beats.



    ------------------------------
    Roger Gable RPT
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    (425) 252-5000
    ------------------------------