Pianotech

  • 1.  Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Posted 09-22-2025 20:24

    Dear Colleagues

    Finally with some performers who wanted to perform Schubert lieder it's been possible to test unequal temperament in performance.

    Schubert lieder - Die schöne Müllerin - in Unequal Temperament

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    Schubert lieder - Die schöne Müllerin - in Unequal Temperament
    Is this the first performance of Schubert Lieder in unequal temperament? 00:00 Introduction 05:36 "Das Wandern" "Wandering" 08:23 "Wohin?" "Where to?" 10:38 "Halt!" "Stop!" 12:18 "Danksagung an den Bach" "Thanksgiving to the Brook" 14:57 "Am Feierabend" "Evening's Rest" 17:48 "Der Neugierige" "The Inquirer" 21:52 "Ungeduld" "Impatience" 24:58 "Morgengruß" "Morning Greeting" 29:19 "Des Müllers Blumen" "The Miller's Flowers" 33:06 "Tränenregen" "Rain of Tears" 37:11 "Mein!"

    was the result. Please don't just dip into any one piece. Schubert was composing the suite of songs as a whole and it's the experience of that rather than any one part that's important.

    Personally I've always been bored by Schubert lieder as conventionally performed. But does the tuning make the difference?

    Might this be a good reason for the whole repertoire to be re-recorded, and possibly generate new enthusiasms for the acoustic instrument rather than electronic alternatives and genres?

    Best wishes

    David P

     



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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex, UK
    +44 1342 850594
    "High Definition" Tuning
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  • 2.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Posted 09-25-2025 06:24
    Clearly from the enthusiasm registered on this thread Schubert's lieder generates no enthusiasm among technicians. But we tune for musicians, who, on account of the ubiquity of equal temperament know no better. As technicians we can tell musicians that there is something better.

    Yes - I was bored too by Schubert lieder - equal temperament makes them monotonous.

    This is why I've recorded a concert in which the Die Shone Mullerin actually comes through not as a boring set of songs with some make singing his heart out and a noise from a piano that's said to be music . . . . but actually an opera. It's an opera in which the scenery is the piano and the lighting is its vibrations which either agree together or are dissociated from each other. Here;'s the link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3c0avKoQZI - just close your eyes and witness the opera for an hour.

    Below are the programme notes which cover the matter of keys together with Schubart's description of the illusion that they might present. Schubert was careful as to the choice of keys, but authorised some others for different voices. This needs more research. It's apparent that there is concordance between the subject matter and the intended affect of each key. But in this concert an alternate set of keys were chosen. Importantly Bb was transposed to Ab which is a serious change of mood, and E major at the end transposed to C major. The C major might be better and the other transpositions of significance might be on account of perceptions of different interpretation.

    With Tim Foster's series of excellent articles starting this month in the Journal, it's this expression and communication of mood that it's all about and the grail which I've been following for 20 years. Recent tunings have been not only in UK for concerts but Greece where a pianist romped through the repertoire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r90aRl6ZMi4 although practicing on an ET Steinway during the day didn't discover the new tools of sustain and legato that the temperament opens up. In a couple of weeks I'm scheduled to visit Italy for a Steinway Artist and his pupils and possibly France for one of the conservatoires. Mastering this tuning will take you places - and were Steinway to offer it as an option, regenerate the classical recording industry and perhaps make people less bored by Schubert lieder and all the rest . . .

    As a footnote I am prepared to share details with anyone who might like to take things forward when Steinway finally take it on board.

    If you've listed to the Schubert opera are you still bored by the lieder?

    Incidentally the opera might not be what it appears, a young bloke following a river, finding a mill, falling into unrequited love where a hunter steals the subjet of his crush and his final committing suicide in the river.

    The river is the course of our lives and along which we wander. Periodically we come across an unrealistic idea which we pursue with passion. The grinding of the mill represents the relentless unstoppable passage of time and events. The unrealistic idea is within reach - like that of Tantalus - but only almost . . . and is stolen from us. As we continue along the river it's not us that commits suicide and finds rest but the realisation of our unrealistic ideas, putting them to bed, being at peace with our efforts and asking those ideas not to trouble us again.

    The song cycle evokes a parallel realm. The audience found the presentation captivating and it kept their attention. The tuning, operated by the keys of composition, really did provide the lighting for the scenes.


    Notes to concert recording - George Dyesmith - Baritone -  Chad Vindin - Piano - Schubert - Die schöne Müllerin - The beautiful miller's daughter . . .  

    "Das Wandern" ("Wandering"; Bb major Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.): "Wandering is the miller's joy" - a journeyman Miller happily travels through the countryside, singing of the restless water, millstones, and millwheels of his trade. The piano part evokes both wheels and water, and the bass octaves pounding away. (Transposed today A ma)

    "Wohin?" ("Where to?"; G major Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion (Transposed today F ma): "Is this my path then? Oh tell me, brook, where to?" -  the Miller fatefully comes across a Brook, and is captivated into following it. The piano imitates the babbling brook with a rippling pattern.

    "Halt!" ("Stop!"; C major Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naïvety, children's talk.): "Dear little Brook, is this what you meant?" -  the Brook leads the Miller to an idyllic mill in a forest grove with foreboding in the music. (Transposed today Bb ma)

    "Danksagung an den Bach" ("Thanksgiving to the Brook"; G major rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love): "Did she send you? Or have you enchanted me?" - The grateful Miller thanks the Brook for providing work for his hands and his heart - the latter in the form of the beautiful maid of the mill, the Müllerin of the title. There's a section in the minor key as the Miller questions the nature of the Brook's guidance and specifically G Minor "Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth.". (Transposed today F ma)

    "Am Feierabend" ("Evening's Rest"; A minor - Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.): "If only I could move the millstones alone! Then the beautiful maiden would know my true purpose!" - the Miller is troubled when the Maiden wishes a good night to all the men, paying him no particular attention; he aches to distinguish himself from his peers. The up-and-down arpeggio from Halt! from the piano represents again the wheel and pounding bass evoking the stones. (Transposed today G mi)

    "Der Neugierige" ("The Inquirer"; B major Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.): "Tell me, little Brook - does she love me?" - he asks the enigmatic brook whether the Maiden loves him - Yes or No - between these two words lies his entire world. (Transposed today Ab ma - the key of putrefaction and death)

    "Ungeduld" ("Impatience"; A major declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness ): "My heart is yours, and it will be forever!" - he wishes he could carve his love into every tree, have every bird sing of it, have the wind tell of it. The music reflects the Miller's agitated state. (Transposed today F ma)

    "Morgengruß" ("Morning Greeting"; C major Completely Pure. (Transposed today A ma)): "Does my greeting displease you so?" - the Miller is troubled by the Maiden's cool reaction to his morning greeting. Nonetheless, his optimism is intact: he will just wait outside her window. The Miller becomes more infatuated.

    "Des Müllers Blumen" ("The Miller's Flowers"; A major innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness): "The flowers will whisper to her as in a dream: forget me not!" - the Miller compares the blue flowers beside the brook with the Maiden's blue eyes. The piano plays an octave higher in the accompaniment, as a dream. (Transposed today G ma)

    "Tränenregen" ("Rain of Tears"; A major - innocent love, hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness (Transposed today G ma)): "She said: 'Rain is coming - farewell, I'm going home'" - the Miller and Maiden share a tender moment by the water. The Miller cannot bring himself to look at her, and stares into the Brook at the moon and her reflection. As his tears ripple in the water, she abruptly leaves with the music turning to the A minor key Pious womanliness and tenderness of character..

    "Mein!" ("Mine!"; D major The key of triumph, of Hallejuahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. ): "Are these all the flowers you have, spring? Can you not shine brighter, sun? The beloved Millermaid is mine! Mine!" - the ecstatic Miller is convinced he possesses the Maiden, despite only dubious encouragement. A brash, heavy-handed, bass accompaniment in broken chords captures the Miller's manic and effusive machismo, and the vocal line features athletic melisma in nearly every bar. (Untransposed)

    "Pause" ("Interlude";  Bb major Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.  ): "Is it the echo of my love's pain? Or the prelude to new songs?" - the Miller, his heart too full to sing, hangs his lute on the wall with a green ribbon and reflects on the heavy burden of happiness. He muses anxiously whether the stirrings of his lute are ominous. The diversions into the Bb minor key, hint at suicide, (Transposed today Ab ma)

    "Mit dem grünen Lautenbande" ("With the Green Ribbon"; Bb major Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.): "Wind the green ribbon into your locks, since you like green so much!" - the Maiden mentions she likes green, and the Miller is happy to oblige, giving her the ribbon as a symbol of their evergreen love. He tries to convince himself that he too likes green, though he is white with flour (Transposed today Ab ma)

    "Der Jäger" ("The Hunter"; C minor Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love, languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul): "There is no game here for you to hunt! Only a doe, a tame one, for me!" - a rough and dashing Hunter clad in green arrives at the mill; the Miller is immediately disturbed by this romantic rival and spirals into a jealous diatribe. The key changes rapidly between C minor and its relative major Eb major The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.. This song is a turning point, marking the beginning of the Miller's descent into tragedy. (Untransposed)

    "Eifersucht und Stolz" ("Jealousy and Pride"; G minor Resentment and dislike): "Where to so fast and wild, dear brook? Turn back, and scold your maiden!" - the Miller desperately compels the Brook to admonish the fickle Maiden, who has been flirting with the Hunter. The piano imitates the now-raging Brook, with a central section again imitating hunting horns. (Transposed today F mi)

    "Die liebe Farbe" ("The Beloved Colour"; B minor The key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation): "Dig me a grave in the green meadow, cover me with green turf, my sweetheart likes green so much" - the Miller obsesses miserably over green, the colour of his love and his pain.  The piano reflects the Miller's tortured fixation and the monotony of the constant refrain (Transposed today A mi)

    "Die böse Farbe" ("The Hateful Colour"; B major Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.): "Oh green, you hateful colour you! So proud, so mocking, so pleased with my pain!" - the Miller bitterly and defiantly renounces the colour green. He wishes only to take the Maiden's hand one last time to say farewell.  The piano boldly includes a hunting horn imitation. (Transposed today A ma)

    "Trockne Blumen" ("Withered Flowers"; E minor Naïve, womanly innocent declaration of love, lament without grumbling): "And when she passes my grave, she will think 'He was true to me!'" - in an elaborate death fantasy, the Miller wishes to be buried with now-withered flowers the Maiden had given him. When she sees this, she will know his heart was faithful; the flowers will bloom again and thus his winter will have passed. (Transposed today C mi)

    "Der Müller und der Bach" ("The Miller and the Brook"; G minor Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme): "Oh dear little brook, you mean so well but do you know what love does to you?" The hopeless Miller turns to the Brook in his heartbreak. The Brook answers with comforting and poetic words of love conquering pain. Resigned and exhausted, the Miller submits himself to the Brook's 'cool rest'. At the end the piano descends peacefully to the final major chord, completely pure (calm and satisfied passion) as the Miller meets his fate. (Transposed today E mi)

    "Des Baches Wiegenlied" ("The Brook's Lullaby"; E major Noisy shouts of joy, and not yet complete full delight ):  "Rest well, rest well, close your eyes. Wanderer, you weary one, you are at home." - The Brook, who has always shown the Miller the constancy he so desired, sings him to sleep, admonishing the Maiden not to disturb him. (Transposed C ma)

    Best wishes

    David P




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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 3.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-25-2025 10:19

    I finally got a chance to listen to most of it in the shop today before my earbuds died. 🤣 And yes, Schubert completely comes to life! In college, one of my peers was playing a Schubert solo piano work, I can't remember which one. The instructor explained to everybody that "he knew how to write to some of the most beautiful melodies of any composer, but he really needed an editor" (commenting that his pieces were generally too long). She is certainly not the only one to have the sentiment either. 

    When I first started tuning strong temperaments, I had a concert pianist come to my house to try it out. He was already familiar with the Young temperament and brought Schubert duets over for us to sight read. We had a blast, everything came to life! Monotonous and pointless key changes suddenly had meaning.

    Thank you for sharing, and I'll charge my earbuds so that I can finish the concert!😊



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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  • 4.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2025 07:37

    I have yet to listen to the entirety but will soon...hopefully.  Lots of material here. 

    Would be interesting to hear the exact same program in ET (not that I like ET) as a 1:1 comparison. That was what convinced me 30 some years ago...

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2025 12:45

    Time for a new certification:  RHT = Registered Historical Tuner  ?



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    Parker Leigh RPT
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
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  • 6.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Posted 09-26-2025 14:00
    Parker - that's so nice and wonderful of you.

    But I hope that all will become Registered Historical Tuners by default! It's been 20 years' experience of mine that people can capitalise upon and once audiences experience the music in colour mere performances in black and white just don't compare.

    There was a concert in Greece for which I tuned where the pianist really didn't understand the tuning and what it could do and practiced the whole day on an equally tuned Steinway. Accordingly his playing was, good - but standard good. Despite this, the Schubert modulations came to life fantastically. https://youtu.be/r90aRl6ZMi4?t=684

    The effect of standard Autobahn playing through tunnels and over bridges with Equal Temperament rather than experiencing the bends, the hills, the valleys and following the rivers is well demonstrated by later his Moonlight https://youtu.be/r90aRl6ZMi4?t=2777 which was slightly more relaxed than his rehearsal. I suggested he take it slower, as if the tide were going out, and he responded that Beethoven wrote Alla Breva. He complained that people took it too slowly and made it too . . . deep . . . in a pseudo sense. Alla Breva or not, I don't feel it's a piece to be rushed.

    Here's another Equal Temperament pianist playing it https://youtu.be/eddtn_Vd2Dc?t=461

    When one compares an unequally tuned instrument there's more to listen to and so the pianist will take it slower with more thoughtfulness and giving greater calm to the audience. Here's a very early recording in experimental unequal temperament tuning and performing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiX5Xjtb7-E and for comparison 
    a performance on an instrument of 1802 https://youtu.be/5NbMnqzmE1k?t=371 and of 1819 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXZxR0AaXAA which is slow but in which there's a lot to be heard.

    Best wishes 

    David P


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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 7.  RE: Unequal temperament for Schubert Lieder - is it a musical crime to perform in modern ET?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2025 14:23

    I will agree that there is somewhat of a tendency to slow things down in good UT. I, for one, when I reach a particularly sonorous combination in my music, I want to drag it out, and absorb the beauty of it. Let it hang as long as I can manage. When I encounter a "not-so-nice" combination I will play it more softly, simply to not draw attention to it, and find the "nice" as soon as possible.

    I had not thought about this tendency until you mentioned it.

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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