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Voicing issue

  • 1.  Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-28-2025 11:33
    Hello all, I recently voiced a small Kawai grand. I used a solution on the hammers made by Pianotek….. on the crown, a couple of drops. It worked great! EXCEPT for the last 6 notes in the treble that are dead. Any advise on how to lively back up the top woody sounding notes? They clearly didn’t need that voicing liquid.
    Sent from my iPhone


  • 2.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2025 16:52
    B72 works great!



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  • 3.  RE: Voicing issue

    Posted 03-01-2025 20:14
    As a footnote to this thread, following the inspiration of Susan Kline to whom I'm ever grateful, ordinary shop Vodka works really well and is as radical or not as you want it to be.

    Depending on hammer wear, my first action is to sand the hammers a little to make them more pointy, olive or diamond shape, but certainly reducing the width of grooves - and I reduce rather than wholly remove. One can always remove more felt but not put it back - and it's easier to apply less liquid after this than to cure the effects of too much. However Vodka is really kind and on the first application, dries out a bit and becomes less severe if you happen to have applied too much.

    However, I rarely treat the top half octave with liquid. Depending on the hardness of the instrument I might use between two and five drops. Sometimes I'll apply it with a small stick-end broken off an olive tree or bush or even a thick stalk of grass. This can be more controllable than a dropper bottle. The major area of obectionable hardness tends to be in the middle so I'll apply the maximum quantity in the middle and tail off in half-octaves or octaves either side, often leaving the top octave alone. A little means a lot to those smaller hammers at the top up there.

    Getting the technique right is magic and can lead to a very successful job especially when one's under time pressure before a concert.

    Back to the question, a YouTube tutorial on liquid voicing was using hairspray for hardening.

    Best wishes

    David P


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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594



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  • 4.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2025 14:27
    Hope I'm not giving insult, as I don't know your level of experience: 

    Have you checked the hammer strike point by moving the action in and out a bit on the treble side? That is most often the culprit when the top few notes are really dead.



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  • 5.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2025 21:21
    It's definately from the voicing liquid I used......:/  thanks for your response.
    Sent from my iPhone



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  • 6.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2025 21:33
    I’m going to try the B72 crystals from Dale Erwin Supply. Can anyone recommend a good recipe for the mixture? Top 6 notes I deadened with the Protek hammer softener are the hammers I need to treat.
    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Feb 28, 2025, at 8:32 AM, Carla Wray <carla.wray@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > Hello all, I recently voiced a small Kawai grand. I used a solution on the hammers made by Pianotek….. on the crown, a couple of drops. It worked great! EXCEPT for the last 6 notes in the treble that are dead. Any advise on how to lively back up the top woody sounding notes? They clearly didn’t need that voicing liquid.
    > Sent from my iPhone


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  • 7.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2025 21:39
    This is something I posted in January of 2019. The 4 gram in 4 oz mixture has been the most useful for me for several years now. YMMV.

    Below is a picture from the first batch I mixed last Spring.  I used the mix suggestions on Dale Erwin's website. www.erwinspiano.com  I just wish I knew he sold B-72 before I bought mine as he sells the same quantity for half the price. I found that  1 teaspoon of the crystals was almost exactly 4 grams. Add that to 1/2 cup acetone  and it fits in a Gaunt hypo oiler 49 .
    thumbnail image


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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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  • 8.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2025 21:45

    Hi Carla,

    Fear not! I have successfully brought overly steamed high treble hammers back to life with B 72 paraloid. You can mix it with either acetone or ethanol. I prefer ethanol, as it is less toxic.

    I carry solutions of 12 to one, six to one and three to one. Erwin Piano's website should offer some details about making good solutions. In addition, there is a video on the PTG website, made by the individual that brought this substance into the piano world, Ken Eschete.

    Best,

    Alan



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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  • 9.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-19-2025 19:54
    Alan,  do you purchase food grade,  medical grade or what type of ethanol are we talking?  Also have not found it in local hardware stores.  Amazon,  maybe?
    Sent from my iPhone



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  • 10.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-19-2025 22:05

    Hi Carla,

    I use Everclear, which can be purchased (in WI anyway) at a liquor or grocery store. It says 'grain alcohol' on the label, which is another name for ethanol, or ethyl alcohol. It has a clean smell, nontoxic if inhaled. Can't say the same for acetone.  


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  • 11.  RE: Voicing issue

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-20-2025 00:00

    At the hardware store, it'll be called denatured alcohol, sometimes labeled as "fuel." But I agree, get Everclear, it doesn't have the chemicals. In PA, I can't purchase anything above 151 proof, so I go to Maryland where I can get 189.



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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