Pianotech

That's my guess too.  Seems to be an issue with a certain vintage of Kawai.

Just like a woman to come in here and tell all the men they are wrong. Haha! ;-) 

It's mold. I see it all the time on Kawais. I've never seen it on a piano other than a Kawai. I had it tested at our college science department. They told me they couldn't narrow it down to the exact mold without a fruiting body, but it's mold. I can share some pictures of much worse if you'd like. ;-) 

Just like a woman to come in here and tell all the men they are wrong. Haha! ;-) 

It's mold. I see it all the time on Kawais. I've never seen it on a piano other than a Kawai. I had it tested at our college science department. They told me they couldn't narrow it down to the exact mold without a fruiting body, but it's mold. I can share some pictures of much worse if you'd like. ;-) 

First of all, congratulations to everyone who identified this as a Kawai issue. In my haste I neglected to note that it is a 1989 Kawai CX-5. 

Peter: What did Don have to say?

Wim: Thanks for the correction. Yes, I meant hammer butts.

Maggie: Mold? Why would there be more of it in the middle of the piano that gets the most use rather than on the ends? Yes, a picture might help to see how closely it matches with what I'm finding in this piano.

Follow-up question: What should I do about it? If anything?

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 08:25
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 07:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 01-16-2024 22:38
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Look Carefully At The Three Pictures!

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shtows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Actually it was fairly recently that Don weighed in, either he or someone else sent it to a lab that reported it as mold.

Fairly common here in older Kawai's. Whether it's mold or not, it seems to me that it degrades the escaine; if you rub it with your finger it will crumble. 

Replacing the catcher and butt "leathers" is actually pretty easy. The old material can be scrapped off with a knife and the slot at the bottom of the butt can be cleared with a stroke of a hacksaw blade, a pallet knife is good for pressing the material on. One tech in town did a lot of them and recommended ca glue just at the top and bottom of the parts the middle is left dry. Fast with no clamping. He did a few actions for me and I've done a couple with no callbacks. 

I think it's something specific to the material Kawai used, whether mold is involved or not, it does affect repitition. The final solution is new escaine or buckskin if you have the right thickness. 

Funny about escaine taking 1 million strokes, good in and of itself but it doesn't factor in time or environmental factors. Corfam literally disintegrated in the tropics. Then Baldwin turned to an escaine type material the got hard as a rock after just a few years.

Look Carefully At The Three Pictures!

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shtows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Actually it was fairly recently that Don weighed in, either he or someone else sent it to a lab that reported it as mold.

Fairly common here in older Kawai's. Whether it's mold or not, it seems to me that it degrades the escaine; if you rub it with your finger it will crumble. 

Replacing the catcher and butt "leathers" is actually pretty easy. The old material can be scrapped off with a knife and the slot at the bottom of the butt can be cleared with a stroke of a hacksaw blade, a pallet knife is good for pressing the material on. One tech in town did a lot of them and recommended ca glue just at the top and bottom of the parts the middle is left dry. Fast with no clamping. He did a few actions for me and I've done a couple with no callbacks. 

I think it's something specific to the material Kawai used, whether mold is involved or not, it does affect repitition. The final solution is new escaine or buckskin if you have the right thickness. 

Funny about escaine taking 1 million strokes, good in and of itself but it doesn't factor in time or environmental factors. Corfam literally disintegrated in the tropics. Then Baldwin turned to an escaine type material the got hard as a rock after just a few years.

Look Carefully At The Three Pictures!

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shtows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

I believe Baldwin used two different colored synthetic buckskins in their actions, and they both eventually crumbled and/or hardened. Then they switched to a buckskin-toned material that appeared to be ecsaine, and the problem did not recur. (They sent out replacement kits, pre-cut.)

I don't know what the Kawai material was, but they eventually stopped using it.

I think it is unfortunate that "ecsaine" is used to name any synthetic buckskin. Ecsaine is a fine quality material which deserves to be properly understood by the piano technical community.

Actually it was fairly recently that Don weighed in, either he or someone else sent it to a lab that reported it as mold.

Fairly common here in older Kawai's. Whether it's mold or not, it seems to me that it degrades the escaine; if you rub it with your finger it will crumble. 

Replacing the catcher and butt "leathers" is actually pretty easy. The old material can be scrapped off with a knife and the slot at the bottom of the butt can be cleared with a stroke of a hacksaw blade, a pallet knife is good for pressing the material on. One tech in town did a lot of them and recommended ca glue just at the top and bottom of the parts the middle is left dry. Fast with no clamping. He did a few actions for me and I've done a couple with no callbacks. 

I think it's something specific to the material Kawai used, whether mold is involved or not, it does affect repitition. The final solution is new escaine or buckskin if you have the right thickness. 

Funny about escaine taking 1 million strokes, good in and of itself but it doesn't factor in time or environmental factors. Corfam literally disintegrated in the tropics. Then Baldwin turned to an escaine type material the got hard as a rock after just a few years.

Look Carefully At The Three Pictures!

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shtows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

I believe Baldwin used two different colored synthetic buckskins in their actions, and they both eventually crumbled and/or hardened. Then they switched to a buckskin-toned material that appeared to be ecsaine, and the problem did not recur. (They sent out replacement kits, pre-cut.)

I don't know what the Kawai material was, but they eventually stopped using it.

I think it is unfortunate that "ecsaine" is used to name any synthetic buckskin. Ecsaine is a fine quality material which deserves to be properly understood by the piano technical community.

Actually it was fairly recently that Don weighed in, either he or someone else sent it to a lab that reported it as mold.

Fairly common here in older Kawai's. Whether it's mold or not, it seems to me that it degrades the escaine; if you rub it with your finger it will crumble. 

Replacing the catcher and butt "leathers" is actually pretty easy. The old material can be scrapped off with a knife and the slot at the bottom of the butt can be cleared with a stroke of a hacksaw blade, a pallet knife is good for pressing the material on. One tech in town did a lot of them and recommended ca glue just at the top and bottom of the parts the middle is left dry. Fast with no clamping. He did a few actions for me and I've done a couple with no callbacks. 

I think it's something specific to the material Kawai used, whether mold is involved or not, it does affect repitition. The final solution is new escaine or buckskin if you have the right thickness. 

Funny about escaine taking 1 million strokes, good in and of itself but it doesn't factor in time or environmental factors. Corfam literally disintegrated in the tropics. Then Baldwin turned to an escaine type material the got hard as a rock after just a few years.

Look Carefully At The Three Pictures!

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shtows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

Look Carefully At The Pictures! (Include Maggies Youtube post.)

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 10:08
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 08:25
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 07:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 01-16-2024 22:38
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Ed et al - Just regarding the first picture from Geoff and my YouTube video, his picture is what mine looked like before it "grew". As for Keith's picture, it may be mold, but a different kind. 

I call this stuff, "flossy mold" and have only seen this particular type on Kawais. The mold I see in other pianos, is typically the green or white, "fuzzy" type. It can get up to 1/8" thick, but tends to stay less than 1/16" thick or splotchy. Black mold in pianos here is much less common but I have seen it a few times and it is never thick...just splotchy. I have a friend in CA who chimed in to tell me she sees mold in pianos there, so it does happen, and she has seen this in Kawais as well (she also believes it to be mold). As far as I know, it's harmless unless one is actually allergic to it. I'm more worried about it degrading piano stuffs. There is an orange type of mycelium here that degrades wood and I have found it in two pianos (one grew two orange mushrooms). I have a batch of the flossy mold and may pay to have it tested by a reputable mold testing company instead of my local college. I really want to know. 

Sorry if that is getting a little off topic. If I get this stuff analyzed, I'll be sure to let you all know what comes back. If it's not mold, I want to know what it is. This discussion is very interesting to me. 

Look Carefully At The Pictures! (Include Maggies Youtube post.)

Each one shows something different!

The Kawai shows dusty threads and thinned out backcheck "buckskin," more worn away in the midrange.

That is something I have encountered precisely, only on Kawai verticals of a certain vintage.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 10:08
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

Over 100,000 varieties of mold. Sure looks like one of that 100,000.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 08:25
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not mold. The link below is what I'm dealing with on Kawais in WV. You're going to tell me that this is escaine? I doubt escaine could produce this much material. It also turns green when it grows from green felt. Thoughts? 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4  

I remove the bulk first with duct tape. Since I am treating it as mold (regardless of what it is), I have found alcohol slows it's regrowth, because it always comes back. Kawai recommended Concrobium, but I keep forgetting to order some. I'll try it eventually & see if it keeps it from coming back. Whatever it is, it's tenacious here. 

On a side note, mold here grows like wildflowers. I have had pianos thickly coated in it, mostly white and green, so much so you could barely see the hammer and the tops of the back of the keys. It's possible.

But, regardless, have fun replacing stuff. *shrug*

------------------------------
Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net

Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2024 07:14
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

The backcheck covering strip shreds as shown, but I don't think it's ecsaine.

Ecsaine a.k.a. ultrasuede and alcantara is incredibly tough, tougher than buckskin. It is increasingly used on action parts by fine manufacturers. WNG states that it shows no wear after a million strikes.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 01-16-2024 22:38
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: What is this dusty stuff on the backchecks?

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Why is it not growing mold on music desk Ecsaine?

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Maggie et al,

I have contacted local mycologists and I will send out samples and will perform a microscopic analysis on this issue.

I will write an article for PTJ on this subject and put it to rest.

For now I suggest that you don't worry as I have not heard of anyone contracting escaine disease from Kawai pianos.

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Maggie et al,

I have contacted local mycologists and I will send out samples and will perform a microscopic analysis on this issue.

I will write an article for PTJ on this subject and put it to rest.

For now I suggest that you don't worry as I have not heard of anyone contracting escaine disease from Kawai pianos.

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

I would appreciate snapshots of this from any pianos that members encounter with mention of the brand and location of the instrument (even the SN would be useful).

I probably don't need samples.

Maggie et al,

I have contacted local mycologists and I will send out samples and will perform a microscopic analysis on this issue.

I will write an article for PTJ on this subject and put it to rest.

For now I suggest that you don't worry as I have not heard of anyone contracting escaine disease from Kawai pianos.

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Blaine! That would be awesome! IF you need samples, I can get some from the thick stuff on the hammer shanks. I will send you any info you'd like about the pianos (privately). 

Wim & Blaine - I have also cleaned up this stuff without a mask. I am not aware of any adverse reactions, but I clean up all kinds of mold (like regular black and green mold) all the time. I'm honestly not worried about it from a health point of view. I live with mold; it's just part of life in WV. I'm annoyed with the stuff when it gets so thick that it's just gross. I don't like that it "grows" so much. 

For anyone who feels sure this stuff comes from the escaine: I'm pretty sure Gina has found this on grands. If so, do Kawai grands have escaine? If so, then it's still a possibility (although Larry has a very good point). If not, then it's not escaine. Gina will have to confirm. 

I would appreciate snapshots of this from any pianos that members encounter with mention of the brand and location of the instrument (even the SN would be useful).

I probably don't need samples.

Maggie et al,

I have contacted local mycologists and I will send out samples and will perform a microscopic analysis on this issue.

I will write an article for PTJ on this subject and put it to rest.

For now I suggest that you don't worry as I have not heard of anyone contracting escaine disease from Kawai pianos.

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers. 

Steven - These pianos did NOT have dehumidifiers in them. The white attachment has tiny tubes coming out of it to vacuum in small spots or around things you don't want to suck up, such as punchings. 

Tim - In my case it isn't always worse on the escaine, but sure.  

I feel like someone said I may have a double problem of mold AND escaine fluff. Absolutely possible. The thing that gets me is that they typically look a little different, particularly in that the escaine fluff won't turn green...I'm guessing. I just don't believe that stuff on the hammer shanks is escaine fluff. 

The only reason I care if it's mold or not is that it can grow back, and it might not be so good to breathe. Also, IF it's mold, it could be prevented if the source is found. I know that drywall here gets mold spores in it while it sits at the warehouse, so when you put it in your house, instant mold in the walls. 

If anyone can tell me where to send it for more or better testing, please let me know! 

I don't have any skin in the game whether or not it's mold or escaine, but it seems possible to me that this escaine material may be conducive to growing mold. This could also help explain why there is more in the middle- more escaine deteriorated in the area played most which helped grow more mold. 

I'm kind of with Wim on this. First of all, in the islands, I've seen the brown wispy stuff but not the green, or mold growing up the hammer shanks like that. It makes me think that there are multiple molds growing. If it is mold in the escaine it certainly deteriorates it as you can often rub it off down to the wood on the catchers, on the hammer butts it gets soft and can get torn by the ends of the jacks. And why only on Kawai's of a certain age? I'm caring for about 75 UST-7's dating back to probably the 80's and they are not showing these symptoms. 

Like Wim said, the deterioration often seems worse in the middle, more worn parts of the action. It's not unreasonable to think that the material is failing from wear. Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods. Most pianos have 25 watt damp-chasers here (sometimes there even plugged in). 

Maybe Kawai was too far ahead of the curve here and the material they originally used was either prone to breaking down and/or had something in it that promotes mold growth.

Maggie, two questions, did these pianos have dehumidifiers in them? And what is that white vacuum cleaner attachment you used?

Hi All - Here are the videos!

This first one is from one of the pianos I first saw it on. I highly doubt that ALL this material is escaine. Toward the end of this video there are green pieces in my sample cup. That's not felt; it's the mold that was growing on the green felt. Please forgive that I'll continue to call it mold until I get a result from a test that says it's not mold or until someone gives me a better term. I suppose I could call it "flossy stuff" or something like that. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EhVTbjfnLO4?si=XnsT7YVd7rpM2f1- 

This video is of my most recent cleaning & treatment. I wish I had used more of the Concrobium, but I was already unhappy about doing this indoors. I typically clean mold OUTSIDE with a blower, instead of a vac. I just remembered that at the beginning of this video, I filmed a different piano that USED to be the worst one, but it had all dried up. I don't remember spraying it with anything, but I might have and forgotten. If I hadn't, I don't know why this one dried up. 

https://youtu.be/X8As_HeDnFI?si=C0wkBvDPfg9KZRYU

This one is a short from when I first used tape. It works great to get the bulk. 

https://youtu.be/1--PZvB9KQA?si=ODMwBaaD_BNWeSQ1

Nathan - Would you show these to your wife? Maybe she has some insight. If I can mail you this stuff, I'll be very happy to do so. I would love to have this tested several times. If she can recommend another place to send it, please share. 

Thanks! 

Maggie

Hi Nathan! 

I was told they couldn't ID it without a fruiting body. I think it was a stereoscope but will have to ask. 

Can I mail some of this stuff to your wife?!? 

Maggie

I know there are people who disagree with me when I say it's mold. I had it tested at our college science department & it came back as mold. Gina Bonfietti recently had it tested at a different science department and it came back as mold. I have a friend who might do a research paper on it, where he tries to find the source and the exact type of mold. It doesn't always grow in the back checks but it often starts there. I have pictures and video of it becoming quite thick on the hammer shanks. Concrobium & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner do a good job. I remove the bulk with tape, then spray. Kawai thinks the Concrobium is safest for the piano. As far as I know, no one has yet to find this on anything other than a piano made by Kawai. If you want links to my videos, let me know. They are unlisted so you can't find them without the links. 

I came across this during a floor tuning for a piano being sold on consignment at a local retailer. Kawai CL-3. 

I'm inclined to agree with the mold conclusion. I'm wondering if there's been any more testing done on samples since the last entry?

Blaine! That would be awesome! IF you need samples, I can get some from the thick stuff on the hammer shanks. I will send you any info you'd like about the pianos (privately). 

Wim & Blaine - I have also cleaned up this stuff without a mask. I am not aware of any adverse reactions, but I clean up all kinds of mold (like regular black and green mold) all the time. I'm honestly not worried about it from a health point of view. I live with mold; it's just part of life in WV. I'm annoyed with the stuff when it gets so thick that it's just gross. I don't like that it "grows" so much. 

For anyone who feels sure this stuff comes from the escaine: I'm pretty sure Gina has found this on grands. If so, do Kawai grands have escaine? If so, then it's still a possibility (although Larry has a very good point). If not, then it's not escaine. Gina will have to confirm. 

I would appreciate snapshots of this from any pianos that members encounter with mention of the brand and location of the instrument (even the SN would be useful).

I probably don't need samples.

Maggie et al,

I have contacted local mycologists and I will send out samples and will perform a microscopic analysis on this issue.

I will write an article for PTJ on this subject and put it to rest.

For now I suggest that you don't worry as I have not heard of anyone contracting escaine disease from Kawai pianos.

Hi Wim, Steven, & Tim,

Let me address the age question first. It is happening on new Kawais. Gina Bonfietti has serviced several new Kawais that have it. This brings me to wear...

In my personal experience, the escaine isn't worn out. Since Gina's pianos are newer, hers isn't worn out either. The escaine is just fine. bit in Gina's and my experience, it's growing in places other than just the escaine. Also in our cases, it really wasn't worse in the middle on most of the pianos. It was across the whole action. 

Wim asked, "But why would this stuff only be on Kawai pianos, and then only on those Kawai's that have escaine? And why would it only be on those Kawai pianos that had very worn out hammer butt jack return "leather", and primarily only in the middle octaves?"
Answering the second question first, it's NOT only on those pianos that have very worn out anything. As for the first question, I have no idea except that IF it's mold, it must be coming from one of their sources of material (I was assuming wood, but have no real information at all). If it's not mold, then I really have no idea. 

I recently thought I found it on a piano that wasn't a Kawai (I think it was a Boston), then found out Kawai made it. 

Steven said, "Maybe you have more aggressive molds in your neck of the woods." 
We absolutely do. I have always assumed that's why I deal with it more than others. I deal with regular mold more than others. I just had a piano yesterday with fuzzy green mold all over the hammers.