Pianotech

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

I once had a Baldwin console that had a rattling sound when the key was released.  It was a new piano, so it was surprising.  I noticed that the key was loose on the balance rail pin.  It would drop fast on the pin.  I ended up glue-sizing the hole so that the key would just slowly drop.  You could rub over the hole with a flat screwdriver blade, which can shrink the hole a tiny bit.  It worked for me, no more rattle or key sound.

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

I tune a Story and Clark upright that has a "clunking" sound on a few notes. I narrowed it down to the hammer rest rail- somehow the felt is harder under a few hammers and the hammers make noise when the shank hits the felt. Unlike your client, it doesn't bother mine and she didn't care to have me repair it. Good luck, and please let us know when you narrow it down!

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

My money's on Tim's answer here.  One thing to add though: when you went back to investigate, how did you do that? Did you play the piano and find the offending sound?  I'd suggest that asking the client to play the piano for you and using that time to observe her playing style might offer some answers or insights at the very least.

I tune a Story and Clark upright that has a "clunking" sound on a few notes. I narrowed it down to the hammer rest rail- somehow the felt is harder under a few hammers and the hammers make noise when the shank hits the felt. Unlike your client, it doesn't bother mine and she didn't care to have me repair it. Good luck, and please let us know when you narrow it down!

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

The really short keys and their oblique angles can present problems of their own especially if the key bushings are really worn. Figuring out exactly when the sound occurs, downstroke, upstroke, after the finger has left the key helps to figure out if the key is bouncing on the balance rail. Part of the balance rail might be more 'live' making the sound louder on those notes. 

My first thought was like Tim, the hammer rest rail. A good stiff brush will raise the nap on the felt at least well enough to tell you if that is a contributor to the problem.

My money's on Tim's answer here.  One thing to add though: when you went back to investigate, how did you do that? Did you play the piano and find the offending sound?  I'd suggest that asking the client to play the piano for you and using that time to observe her playing style might offer some answers or insights at the very least.

I tune a Story and Clark upright that has a "clunking" sound on a few notes. I narrowed it down to the hammer rest rail- somehow the felt is harder under a few hammers and the hammers make noise when the shank hits the felt. Unlike your client, it doesn't bother mine and she didn't care to have me repair it. Good luck, and please let us know when you narrow it down!

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

My money's on Tim's answer here.  One thing to add though: when you went back to investigate, how did you do that? Did you play the piano and find the offending sound?  I'd suggest that asking the client to play the piano for you and using that time to observe her playing style might offer some answers or insights at the very least.

I tune a Story and Clark upright that has a "clunking" sound on a few notes. I narrowed it down to the hammer rest rail- somehow the felt is harder under a few hammers and the hammers make noise when the shank hits the felt. Unlike your client, it doesn't bother mine and she didn't care to have me repair it. Good luck, and please let us know when you narrow it down!

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

You should learn how to distinguish between the noises a piano can make, which can help your diagnosing skills.. "clunkie" doesn't quite cut it. There are wood to wood noises, wood to felt noises, metal to wood noises, metal to metal noises, and metal to felt noises. I find that when they are difficult to find, i'm thinking loose capstans and loose leads. Those would be metal to wood noises btw.

Good Luck Patrick.

-chris

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

You should learn how to distinguish between the noises a piano can make, which can help your diagnosing skills.. "clunkie" doesn't quite cut it. There are wood to wood noises, wood to felt noises, metal to wood noises, metal to metal noises, and metal to felt noises. I find that when they are difficult to find, i'm thinking loose capstans and loose leads. Those would be metal to wood noises btw.

Good Luck Patrick.

-chris

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?

Greetings,

I would like to underscore Chris' point about the importance of asking, when sleuthing an unwanted sound,"What material(s) do I think I am hearing?" Taking that approach can and often does expedite the hunt, in my experience.

Best,

Alan

You should learn how to distinguish between the noises a piano can make, which can help your diagnosing skills.. "clunkie" doesn't quite cut it. There are wood to wood noises, wood to felt noises, metal to wood noises, metal to metal noises, and metal to felt noises. I find that when they are difficult to find, i'm thinking loose capstans and loose leads. Those would be metal to wood noises btw.

Good Luck Patrick.

-chris

So...  This is one that has stumped me.  Working on a Wurlitzer spinet that is about 60 years old or thereabouts.  Third time tuning for an eccentric person who lives up in the mountains in a farmhouse with no insulation.  Though she does have a DC system in it.  After the tuning, the customer calls me back and says "after you tuned the piano, it is making a clinking and clunking sound".  She is of the mind that my tuning caused the clunking.  I tried to explain that turning the tuning pins would not affect the action aspect.  I also pointed out that her piano is sitting next to two windows on an uninsulated wall.  But it just sounded like I was making excuses.  So, I did some detective work and a few keys do make a "clunk" sound as the key falls back in to position.  I thought it might be dry rotted grommets, so I replaced a few of those and that was not it.  Then I thought the underfelt might be hardened, so I replaced a section of that, but that wasn't it.  I tightened all the keyframe screws and that helped a bit, but a few keys still clunked.  I lubed the heck out of every point in the action and still a clunk sound. I thought it might be the let off rail, so I tried adjusting that back and forth and that didn't work. 

I think I have figured out that the sound is originating in the key itself, so could it be that the key fork is loose in the key?  I have thought about drilling a small hole next to the key fork in the wood and filling that with CA glue to tighten up any looseness. I adjusted lost motion on the offensive notes and that didn't help.  I have also thought about putting fallboard felt (very thin) on the bottom of the offensive keys to see if that will dampen some of the sound as it falls back in to position. I know that is a "tooner" type of move. I tuned the piano for her and told her I would do more research. First time in 40 years I have been this flummoxed over a piece of crap piano.  

Any advice?